the way i described, but not because of their skin pigmentation!

I mean, if PS had said there is insane violence amongst the poor, this convo would have gone in an entirely different direction.

Ya know, at least until you guys made it about black people at some point in that convo too./

what is it you guys are fishing for? we've been over this. the root cause is historical racism. today, the problems are poverty, single motherhood, guns, and things of that nature. what are you trying to trick me into saying? this seems silly

I admit to being confused, I was told that carrying a gun would make the dead guy safer. I guess that's only if he pumps eleven rounds into each of his assailants, right?

(Note: both open and concealed carry are acceptable in Louisiana; the presence of a gun in someone's pocket is something the police should be prepared for and unafraid of. It is possible, to preempt the next question, that this person was not carrying it legally, but the police would have no reason to know that at that point in the interaction.)

Also, that stuff about "making sure police don't abuse their power" includes body cameras and such. Saying "oops both our cameras fell off" should be unacceptable and get you ****-canned from the job, let alone, you know, shooting a restrained suspect with a weapon not in his hand. (Unless, as a dead guy, he put the gun back in his pocket for the police to then re-remove it from the pocket.)

So how do we fix poverty, single motherhood, guns, and things of that nature?

(If your answer is "I dunno, that's a black people problem!", you might be a racist!)

Sadly no, it came up again recently.

So... the behavior of poor people contribues to the problems in the black community?

And that is a cultural issue?

we should entirely change the way our government is run, which is the same answer i give any time a question like this comes up

the government sounds like a white culture problem though

again, the disagreement comes from word choice. when we say something is a cultural issue, we don't mean its inherent to any group of people, we mean it's an observation based on how people actually behave. petty crime isn't inherent to black people, but it's still a part of black culture in the year 2016. that's why a #1 song talks about "hitting licks" and creddit card scammers, because these are parts of black culture in the year 2016. seriously, what is so confusing about this? it's an observation of basic reality, not a statement of how people are destined to behave because of their skin color

For all the Utopia **** PS loves to spout in here, Annie seems to be arguing first we make thieves, then punish them.

There isn't. Poor White communities don't have the same rates. Yes they are higher, and poverty partially explains the problem, but not anywhere near completely. If you asked me my best guess at the biggest problem I would say single motherhood. Outcomes for children from single-mom households have really bad outcomes across the board.

Also from a psychological standpoint there is a good reason why this might lead to a fight authority type of mentality among men..... and since the cultures are unfortunately segregated from one another.... the idea of "if you're a man you're a badass fighter" can pervade through an entire community even to the ones that aren't from single-mom households. It can become a culturally identity.

Especially given culture wars, it can be a way to feel superior to the main culture (or what some are calling "White" culture) I would contend that our culture in general has become embarrassingly meek so I could see the idea of not being this way as a badge of honor for the Black community.

But again, I'm doing A LOT of speculating here at CN's insistence

I hesitate to say there IS a White culture. You know who does say that... the alt right

However yeah, the general (white) culture also has it's problems. Who said it doesn't?

i'm confused what analogy i can give that you won't dissmiss out of hand. if i say that islamic culture has a terrorism problem, that doesn't mean that i think that people with the evil muslim gene are born terrorists, it means that i am observing reality and noticing that in 2016, islam has a problem with terrorism. we could discuss the conditions that led to that being true, but that doesn't change the basic reality that islam has a terrorism problem. and it isn't "racist" to notice that

It's not just poverty. It's access to drugs, bullets, broken families, and police beatings.

Other developed countries have poor people too, but America is one of the worst. It is appropriate to use 'blacks' in this context, although not necessary.

And its still not appropriate to call those issues "black culture"in that context

I really need to contend that it is necessary. I think it's important that less smart people not feel a reason to believe they are smarter than smart people. Smart people look stupid when they don't state things for what they are.

I KNOW this can be used by actual racists.... but um... do you think they can't figure this out on their own. Does Obama think the racists in this country don't know that ISIS is Islam? It's silly. Be confident and complete in identifying problems. Scold people on both sides that use the information for malevolence/silliness.

Can we talk about the millions of innocents your nation has killed yet, or is that still too sensitive a topic?

Why?

Was it ever? Exactly what did I do that pissed you off regarding morality? forgive me I genuinely don't remember.

oh, so we can admit that this is a stupid word argument and not a racist argument?

do you prefer "black people are overreprented in crime statistics and in prisons?"

this has been my argument the entire time: yall would rather have a talmudic parsing of the word "culture" than just admit we're on the same page about what we're talking about

I think I have a pretty good idea of what you both believe black culture means actually.

And black people behavior etc

You guys did some good work here tonight

Black people love drugs and guns and single motherhood! They act like poor people! Why won't they take some goddamn responsibility for their own police beatings!!

WE'RE NOT RACISTSKKSNK;N;GK'ANG!!!!!