POG Politics Thread - Page 78 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

No one itt has mentioned that the guy will also not make a Halloween cake

He doesn't do gay weddings or Halloween. That seems fairly consistent. He won't make a cake for a gay or straight person for Halloween.

If you force him to make the wedding cakes should you also force him to make Halloween cakes?

06-07-2018 , 10:14 AM

#1927

VoraciousReader

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

That is correct

Also vr

Very thought out response and I not one said I fully agreed with the court decision I said I understood it

As a jew I'd have a difficult time writing something like

Only those who follow Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior will have Salvation

On a cake. Can I refuse? It's a tough question
And it doesn't make me a bigot

I understand the dangerous precedent the ruling can set. My parents were denied hotel rooms in AC when casinos first opened there for being jewish. So 8 get why the court explicitly said this ruling was about how the baker was treated not whether he could refuse service

It's a very complicated issue
I'm still not sure how I feel about

But nobody was asking him to write on a cake. I don't know what weddings you go to but not ONCE have I seen a wedding cake with political or religious statements on it.

This is like a dry cleaner refusing to clean a Muslim woman's head scarf and arguing that he doesn't clean headscarves, while his sign gives a price to clean a scarf. Just clean the scarf whether you approve of her apparel or not. Because that's the service you offer. He wasn't asked to approve or endorse anything.

06-07-2018 , 10:15 AM

#1928

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,885

Does anyone actually believe in "multiculturalism" and what does it look like? Obviously birdman doesn't but I get the idea most people vaguely do? I still don't get if it just means people wearing different clothes with different food or if it means real differences between people.

06-07-2018 , 10:15 AM

#1929

kokiri

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

As an aside, I went to a lesbian jewish wedding a few years ago and the rabbi talked about how some Torah scholars believe that King David, the first king of the Jews, was a gay lover of Jonathan, son of Saul I researched more on my own and definitely see how things can be interpreted that way

And I wish the religious right did. I am aware of the passages in the bible that make them think gay is a sin, but I hope they also look at evidence such as above and realize that it is nto a sin in my opinion

Personally I’d rather they stop using random bible passages or whatever historical evidence they can cook up to justify their prejudice and admit that they’re not really into any of the “love thy neighbour”, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, & “turn the other cheek” bit of Christianity but just want some spurious bs reasons for being judgmental arseholes.

06-07-2018 , 10:16 AM

#1930

metsandfinsfan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kokiri

Wtf is a gay wedding cake? Does it have some special day ingredients?

How hard was it to type it out?

It bothered me a little tbh. Typing the word Jesus doesn't but christ does a little. Not enough for me not to type it but I get why some jews would not be able to

Its why orthodox jews write BCE before the common era instead of BC before christ because ther feel writing christ is acknowledging that Jesus is the christ (which means messiah, there were no last names back then)

I personally don't have a problem writing BC but I respect that they do

06-07-2018 , 10:17 AM

#1931

pwnsall

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Nice meta post

06-07-2018 , 10:17 AM

#1932

Birdman10687

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lol “the market will regulate”

just amazing that there are still drones that believe that bull****

06-07-2018 , 10:20 AM

#1933

Birdman10687

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lenC have you read “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair?

06-07-2018 , 10:22 AM

#1934

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,230

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

"He doesn't do black weddings or Halloween. That seems fairly consistent. He won't make a cake for a black or white person for Halloween."

Is this different than what you wrote? If so, how?

06-07-2018 , 10:24 AM

#1935

metsandfinsfan

banned

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 159,821

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoraciousReader

He later said in court he would make them a bland cake with no words. But that was after court

I agree he should make them the same cake he would make others and not refuse because they are gay.

Last edited by metsandfinsfan; 06-07-2018 at 10:54 AM.

06-07-2018 , 10:26 AM

#1936

metsandfinsfan

banned

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 159,821

Yes Halloween is a pagan holiday and he refuses to make cakes for it seems okay to me

06-07-2018 , 10:27 AM

#1937

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

It isn't different if his religious beliefs were that only white people should marry.

My question was do you force him to make the Halloween cakes?

06-07-2018 , 10:31 AM

#1938

pwnsall

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Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,885

Anyway current law is we allow people to discriminate in some ways (like the NFL kneeling policy) and not others and it seems fine.

Maybe in the future we'll allow and disallow different ones.

06-07-2018 , 10:32 AM

#1939

DWetzel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

I think the issue is that most people do not see the difference between "a wedding cake" and "a gay wedding cake", except for the sexual orientation of the consumer of the cake.

06-07-2018 , 10:32 AM

#1940

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,230

No you don't force him to make a Halloween cake. How is that relevant?

06-07-2018 , 10:34 AM

#1941

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DWetzel

I think the issue is that most people do not see the difference between "a wedding cake" and "a gay wedding cake", except for the sexual orientation of the consumer of the cake.

There is no difference.

It is about the event though not the consumers. His argument was that he doesn't want to be seen as endorsing gay weddings..just like he doesn't condone Halloween. Both go against his religion.

06-07-2018 , 10:35 AM

#1942

DWetzel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

It isn't different if his religious beliefs were that only white people should marry.

Where does one person's "religious freedom" end and another person's right to be not discriminated against as a functional part of society begin?

Surely the right to "religious freedom" isn't absolute.

06-07-2018 , 10:35 AM

#1943

Birdman10687

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Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

No you don't force him to make a Halloween cake. How is that relevant?

lol this whole thread is basically

“Ok if you let him do X, then you also have to let him do Y which is a totally different situation”

Perfect logic

06-07-2018 , 10:36 AM

#1944

pwnsall

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Yeah that is basically it. Or don't let him do x he can't do y.

06-07-2018 , 10:39 AM

#1945

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

lol this whole thread is basically

“Ok if you let him do X, then you also have to let him do Y which is a totally different situation”

Perfect logic

A lot of times x and y aren't that different and because we don't want be governed by ad hoc standards and because that is the nature of supreme Court arguments.

06-07-2018 , 10:40 AM

#1946

DWetzel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

No, it's about the consumers.

06-07-2018 , 10:41 AM

#1947

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,230

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

It isn't different if his religious beliefs were that only white people should marry.

This is correct. Do you see a problem with that?

06-07-2018 , 10:43 AM

#1948

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

This is correct. Do you see a problem with that?

A problem with the religious beliefs or a problem with someone having those beliefs owning a bakery?

06-07-2018 , 10:46 AM

#1949

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,230

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

A problem with the religious beliefs or a problem with someone having those beliefs owning a bakery?

The latter. With the addition of "actively discriminates customers based on those beliefs"

06-07-2018 , 10:47 AM

#1950

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DWetzel

No, it's about the consumers.

So holloween is event gay weddings consumers? That doesn't seem right

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