violence is an assumed part of political and economical control obviously. OTOH I think cultural domination is the exact opposite of violent domination, the mainstream media is a form of cultural domination.

I thought I was reading the pub, because TL was posting. Then I wondered who let her into the community thread. Then I realized that line of thinking is backwards. It's actually the pub that she is too young for.

Super excited. I decided to splurge less on new releases, so I am waiting for this from the library.

If labor laws improved working conditions then that means the market couldnt provide them and thereby the state had to jump in.

That is not my position, my position is "omg government fixes stuff that the market clearly cant take care of".

In some laws that clearly happens but that is the result of previous economic inequality which resulted in cultural and politic domination.
Stop thinking about institutions and think about people that take advantage of others and those who dont, the first group uses economical, political and cultural power to have things their way.
That being said sometimes stuff is so obvious that the public cant be fooled when that happens then the government does good stuff like basic labor laws that the market failed to provide or public education for everybody which I agree its horrible and sometimes counter-productive but it still beats nothing.

only in your silly backwards country

It's entirely possible zurvan and val may never arrive at an agreement.

This doesn't follow at all. It's not even close to an argument.

WHY WOULD WE GIVE THESE PEOPLE ABSOLUTE POWER OVER OUR LIVES?
Of course, the step you're missing here is the one where the public decides a thing is good, then it's provided by the government, which forces out any market solution before it has a chance to form OR forces out previously existing market solutions.

I'm fairly sure he'll read my logical and reasonable posts and realize that he's headed down the path to wrongness

If that fails, I'll start yelling

My little girls been trying to learn how to walk (walking with her pusher/holding on to couchs and so on)and every time she falls over i laugh so hard, am i bad people?

I'm pretty sure we have a thread for people who'll never arrive at an agreement

I bookstores, but there's no reason to actually buy a book there. Even leaving aside prices, I think I'd rather support Amazon than some local B&M store.

Instant gratification

and programmers

If you must get a book from a bookstore, go to http://www.dealigg.com/story-Borders...-Code-Discount which almost always has a 25 to 40% off coupon on any book at Borders.

The bookstores near me tend to have discounts that make it about the same as amazon et al, and I'm more of a "I want a book, but no idea which one" person than someone who actually knows what they want.

so they aren't well versed in malarkey

It clearly does, what is it that you are not understanding?
The market is failing to provide safe conditions for poor workers the state has to jump in and regulate.

You claim that labor laws were not the best way to improve those conditions so why didnt they improve in the first place without goverment intervention?

Goverment 1 Market 0

that is my exact line of thinking, we need to empower the middle and lower classes.
I dont see how libertarianism takes care of that, Im not sure libertarianism is even possible, because you want economic inequality without the political inequality yet history shows that the guys with the money end up being in charge.

So its the public fault for not being patient enough to wait for the market?

start yelling

I'm done, you clearly know all the answers.

There is no money to be made in saying everything is OK so that will never be argued.

isn't there a politics thread? mods gonna mod?

thats where most of the money is actually.

I think for fantasy it's generally more important to be good at creating worlds, plots and characters (world+plot > character for fantasy imo). You can get away with sloppy writing if the rest is good

There's a new kindle 3G+wifi imo

There wouldn't be nothing which is the entire point.

Iirc val's parents are involved in government shenanigans and he (used to?) studies sociology so I'll assume Zurvan is less biased and thus his opinion is more insightfull.

semi-sidenote

are there actually governments that empower the lower and middle classes

every government i've seen just gives them stuff

lol @ me having all the answers, if anything you should argue that Im not proposing anything concrete.

I don't actually think you have all the answers, I'm trying to make you stop talking to me