Well the bottom line is that we have to find 2 wolves in a limited amount of time.

It seems that there is a point in every game where I turn on you, and the reason for this is because of that one game where I (or res) was the seer and you were like the perfect villager in my eyes. I only peeked you to confirm. You were a wolf, to my surprise, and said all the right things and pushed all the right people. It's nothing personal against you......you are one of my favorite players, and I respect your wolf game a huge amount.

So all I want is to discuss you, that's all. And showing all the wonderful things you've done will not really help, because you do that in your wolf game.

Oh and that "res seer game" was actually me playing from his account btw......

lol, i cant really say anything to that.

Exactly.....

that is why I'd like to discuss you with Nich, who's opinion I trust a lot as he's a good player.

If he dies village, we will have his analysis to go back to...and if he dies wolf...well then we can try and decide what level he is on with his answers.

OR - why do you believe Nich?

What did his play accomplish, other than to buy himself an extra day?

We mislynched a villager last night and lost the seer, so the net/net of it all is that Nich - who even admitted he thought he was going to be lynched yesterday, got himself an extra day at the expense of the real seer and another villager.

You yourself have claimed seer in that situation a couple of times and done it as a wolf, but you think that Nich isn't a wolf here, why?

If he's a wolf, his play makes just as much sense as if he's a FPSing villager, even more so, if you ask me.

I am not a ww expert my any means but here are my reasons:

1) I have seen him do it in a turbo before. I was the seer and had just so happen to have peeked him villager, so I knew what he was doing. I have also seen Epi do it in a long game before, when I was also seer, except that time I reacted the way soah did and ended up getting epi mis-lynched as villager. Epi told me what great play it would have been if the seer had stayed hidden, so that is one reason why I think that Epi's complete total opposite reaction to Nick's play is interesting. He isn't even CONSIDERING the fact that Nich FPSed as villager.

2) Why would Nick bother as a wolf in that spot? Essentially the wolves were already down 2 members with a seer still hidden. If you claim seer there is NO WAY that you live to end game in ANY circumstance, so why do it in that spot? What if the other wolf had been peeked by the real seer? You essentially blow the entire game. He came out early in the day, and was being discussed but I don't think was the defined lynch 100% for the day. As a wolf I think there are better plays to make then claiming seer (which Luckay tried to do also....but made a mistake...and no one is giving him grief for it)

ok i cant help but respond to this. the situations were completely different, a fact you should realise since we discussed the one you refer to at length (well, i ranted at you, anyway) and i repeat, ive laid out my nich reasoning, again, at length. it might be wrong, and i could come up with it as a wolf, but it exists, and you should acknowledge it if you're going to analyse me.

nice call on Epi doing the same thing I did...more wolf points for him

also, swiitch...my play didn't do any harm...the seer decided himself that yesterday was when he should come out...i didn't fake peek a wolf and i did it THREE+ days before Must Lynch, so it was not harmful on its own

i didn't do it to buy myself an extra day (who cares?)...i did it to protect the seer and possibly clear 3 players to LOCK up the game

epi, enlighten us who aren't aware of the situation...how are the situations completely different?

again, i reiterate, since i do that exact play as any role, it doesn't come into play when deciding to lynch me or not

u should lynch me for other factors...in fact, it is conceivable to NEVER lynch me this game if you think i'm a villager other than the false claim...the false claim does not make me a wolf nor a 'must lynch'

there should still be wagons today like normal and people should still decide if i'm a wolf or villager based on my tone, my votes, etc...not based on my faking, which everyone knows i do more often as villager than as wolf

Ok Epi I read your arguments (from today..not yesterday).....and this is the only one that I really see some merit in.....

I can understand why Nich would claim as villager, but if that is how he behaved once soah came out then ya maybe you are right...

However.....if you want the wolves to believe you then you have to act this way, do you not?

Did Luckay not false claim too??

Why is that different?

He took it back because he got kyro=village wrong. Otherwise I think he would have gone with it. Could he not be a wolf who somehow talked himself out of a massive screw up???

I mean wasn't he being wagoned early in the game also?

not sure why my devoting time to the illogical nature is wolfy

i didn't want you to lynch me b/c i'm villa...i didn't want you to lynch soah because i figured he was the seer

just like in the kokiri game, i think it is illogical to lynch either claimee...even more so this game since NO WOLVES WERE PEEKED and it was THREE days to must lynch

u guys had made up ur minds that i was a wolf, which is why i freerolled...so why would i go on and on and on about my being a villa when nobody would hear it? the only thing i could appeal to is LOGIC and the fact that voting either me or soah was -----EV yesterday

i had almost no heat on me, in fact i purposely baited OR into voting for me so i could argue i claimed due to my "wagon". this was a few months back when i thought i could reasonably fake an inexperienced seer panicking at the slightest heat. iirc, that days lynch was already basically settled - for added tilt, the wolves had decided to bus the one wolf, vader, who wound up winning f3. i worked out that if the seer survived one more day, we'd probably have a lock, i had a couple of vill reads i was sure enough of to gamble on, and if they were right, we'd basically won the game. therefore, my play made no sense as a concealed wolf, and a lot of sense as a villager.

by contrast, you had a great deal of heat on you, and must have known that you were likely to be a lead wagon, and based on the people who were going to push you, the most likely lynch. therefore, your play made a great deal of sense as an exposed wolf, and less (albeit, i grant you, some) as a villager.

Did Luckay realize kyro had even died when he did that? Maybe he planned his "peeks" all game and didn't remember to remove or change kryo after he died? Could Luckay have been a wolf trying to protect his partner by peeking him village?

Have you even been paying attention to the thread?

There was NO WAY Nich was living until end game as it was. This is why it makes so much sense for him to come out there as a wolf - he's doing it to throw up flak for the last wolf.

Which makes more sense to do as a wolf?
1) Come out right away and claim seer like he did yesterday
2) Wait until he gets a ton of heat during the day and then come out.

He knew he was going to get heat, so he pre-empted there and claimed when he did, so that he could create as much confusion as possible.

If the 4th wolf was already peeked and Nich is a wolf, its game over wolves, so his play makes perfect sense. If the wolves have already essentially lost, why not make the play?

What would you have done in that spot as a wolf? You have 2 of your team dead, still haven't eaten the seer, and a 3rd team member has been drawing a lot of heat. Tell us what a better play is there than coming out.

Now tell us why Villager Nich would do the same thing. The wolves have 2 members gone, and the seer still hasn't been eaten, the seer could have peeked one of the 2 remaining votes the night before - why come out in that spot?

As far as Luckay's claim goes - if he makes a mistake in his peeks, why would anyone take it seriously? Of course he's not getting grief for it - it made no sense. I even pointed it out just a couple of posts after he made it. If lUckay hadn't have made a mistake in his peeks, you can be pretty damn sure he's going to be getting a ton more heat for it than he has been.

But how would he have known that the other wolf hadn't been peeked?

Isn't it pretty standard to assume that once u claim seer as a wolf that you are going to die within a day or two?

So why would you out yourself? Why not hope that someone else does something wolfy or hope that you can convince ppl some other way?

As far as this goes - I agree with you he could be a wolf making a fancy play.

But Nich could be, too.

uh huh. so we've sneakily progressed from "majority me today if more people are around for discussion" to "it is conceivable to NEVER lynch me this game". act like a resigned villager for long enough and hope that you can turn things round? the idea of not lynching you is preposterous.

what part of "nich was going to be lead wagon and probable lynch if he didnt claim seer" is eluding you? enough people have said it enough times, and you dont seem to be hearing it.

Weren't you the one who was telling the village what a bad spot we were in after ZT was modkilled?

Why would you create further confusion among the village there, and not let the real seer come out on his own?

Well if we lynch nich tonight and are wrong then I am pretty sure village loses this game like 95% of the time.

Nich

whatever

the fact of the matter is that there should be two wagons today and i should be discussed like anyone else based on tone, posts, votes (i did push kyro for one), nks, etc...my fake seering shouldn't even factor, or should help me, since i do it far more often as villager than as wolf

so what i had some heat? as wolf i'm not claiming there that early in day when i could easily not get lynched and someone like atak/or/etc could over me...it's not like i was a few from majority in the evening...it was morning and i had like 2-3 votes on me...big deal

again, village does NOT have to lynch me here...i'm not an 'auto-lynch' because i claimed

if i claimed with 'atak=wolf' then sure...auto-lynch me...but i claimed with all villa peeks as a villager, so i'm not an auto-lynch

now if u wanna lynch me because of the people who said i was a wolf starting d2 after a total of TWO posts by me, then go for it...or the nks that people say point to me but don't (DMK voted KYRO over me when it mattered, and I was also on Kyro, for one)...then fine, use the bad logic of those nks to condemn me

but u should stop acting like i'm an auto-lynch (that's what WOLVES want people to think) and like there is only 1 wolf amongst epi/swiitch/ollie/luckay/clown