Cool. Just as long as we manage to organize everything before night..

I am fine with this. I am fine with something that leaves things to a rand of some sort (for getting rid of people). I am submitting lion (since I have a cheetah in right now) but am open to discussion.

I think it is imperative that everyone at this point has some chances to make it to the final jeep, though I think xoom is locked as we must have someone at least tied.

The reason I don't think anyone should be cut out entirely is that the power of spite is mighty here. The people with the lowest scores already are facing darwin, and having less voting power in democracy. On the upside, I have probably offended more people than anyone else, so they got that going for them.

Also, if this is the deal, I will be totally committed to the jeep group until we are at least in the money (5 players).

At least tied with Jeep 1 point leader, that is.

and no, bob, I can't agree to that.

So does everyone agree that I do a rand to decide who will be the last three we will be sending forward?

It is going to be hard coming up with a fair distribution, because one person can just put his foot down and basically screw the whole jeep over. The easiest way to do it is by points imo. Anyone disagree or have another solution?

i'm guessing you want to swap yourself and fnord?

I came up with that list as a starting point by giving xoom the cheetah and then assigning everything else up from the bottom, excepting dropping nich because i was annoyed. I personally am not willing to accept anything except lion, but I don't really care how the rest of it gets divvied up (except xoom). Keep in mind that we do have another round to even out some of the inequalities that arise.

I disagree with a points rand because I get thoroughly screwed over for hunting cooperatively.

Yeah, that's true. Hmm.

Okay, so what if I just give everyone an equal chance?

We assign you numbers from 1 to 5.

I (or anyone really) then posts and we use the last digit in the post number (not the post count number) to decide who gets to to move on and who gets left behind..

That's extraordinarily generous to people like nich who have not contributed too much to this jeep.

I'm gonna take a nap, but I would remind you that you got to the position you currently are in large part because you had friends, and both of the solutions you've proposed so far amount, imo, to completely ditching the people who helped you earlier in favor of getting the people who can help you now onboard.

xoom, you're not seeming like a very good ally here.

We went into an alliance with four people just two days ago, and I was in the driver's seat point wise, bringing the most to the alliance. I accepted you guys as equals nonetheless and took one for the team that very night, which is why you are leading in points -- because of what happened IN our alliance, not before. Any suggestion that you should be randing fnord or lc...or even nich... an even opportunity to move on with me is pretty scary to me as your 'ally'.

I know, I ended up in a lucky position. I would have been very happy to go all the way with you, nich and ackbleh. Unfortunately the circumstances changed, not much to do about that.

The problem is that if we don't include everyone in the rand, regardless of their contribution so far, they can very easily screw us over. Everyone has the same amount of power atm.

And at the moment it seems that the other jeep are planning to work together to get to the final four the same way we do, so we absolutely have to maximize points for the four people going into the merged jeep starting tonight.

If we don't work together to maximize points they will pick us off one by one.

Dictatorship --> luckay leaves one of us behind
democracy --> one of us goes
darwinism --> most likely one of us

But if we don't include fnord/lc they will severely hamper the amount of points we can get. And if the other jeep manages to decide upon a group of four to make it to the final jeep, we don't stand a chance..

So including lc/fnord = a chance at the final four
Not changing anyting = basically no chance at the final four

I'm being lazy, because I suck at diplomacy, and I don't want to deal with this.

But I agree with most of what xoom said above.

Obviously we need to include them. No one particularly wants to cut them out. But there's no reason that they need to get equal shares with the people who have been on your team for days.

I think a 2:2:1:1:1 rand is fair. That's a better than 40% chance of getting on the final jeep for everyone. I'll also state now that I won't sign on to any deal where ack and I don't get the same chances or where lc, nich, and fnord don't get the same chances.

I think I'm over my tilt at going from pretty much locked up championship points to a pretty even playing field overnight due to an ally's failure to submit. nich don't take it personally, RL obviously has priority, but game-wise that was a pretty devastating blow to your allies.

Loyalty to allies who hold up their end of the bargain is an important thing in this game. I am still loyal to bobman and xoom. Sorry nich, there have to be consequences for costing our team control of the jeep.

bobman, xoom: I suggest we offer the following to lc/fnord:
1) nich goes tonight, no matter what.
2) fnord/lc get a 50/50 chance of moving on each, decided in some clearly fair way.
3) fnord/lc prove their loyalty to our new alliance by group hunting tonight, while we take the high-point animals. In exchange, we agree that whoever wins the rand tomorrow to move on will get to hunt whatever they want tomorrow with no interference from our group (I would assume they would choose cheetah, but they might want lion so that xoom can build a points lead). Whoever loses the rand agrees to bow out gracefully and not interfere either. The winner of the rand also gets full membership in the alliance going forward, with equal consideration in every decision and rand going forward.

xoom, this is a long game. You will need trusted allies.

exception to the above: I am, of course, willing to sign on to ack's plan as well.

This is exactly right. This is why I think everyone needs at least SOME chance, unless they don't mind foregoing it. Anyone person can screw everyone else in the jeep. It is mutually assured destruction.

I am not willing to agree to any deal in which xoom has a higher probability of moving on to the next jeep than I do, or any deal in which bobman has a different probability of moving on than I do.

note that my plan maximizes our jeep total points heading into next round.

Ack,

If nich does not agree to your plan, then what?

I would like at least a 66% chance of moving on to the next jeep. Perhaps less if the times I move on, I am close to the lead.

But w/e, I'm probably pretty flexible, so you should work out a deal that doesn't cut me out and accommodates everyone else.

Why would nich agree to the plan?

ack, would you be willing to amend your plan a bit to give nich a place in the rand? I think it's a good idea for a few reasons:
1. I was really pissed this afternoon too, but I think nich genuinely regrets letting us down and not submitting.
2. I don't think that nich would pointlessly spite us just for kicks, but if we can involve him in the plan, that's 6 extra votes for our group hunters.

I included my condition about lc=fnord=nich for bargaining simplicity, but I'm not married to it. lc=fnord is necessary, imo, but if we need to move nich around to get a deal, I'm ok with that.