So, here is the thing with patton that gave me a little headache, but just wasn't enough:

He got quiet yesterday when I said that no, it was him who got lynched, not jeremy. I really should have thought things through more and pushed that plan hard just to find the other villager. Anyway, before, when I knew he was not a renegade, I thought he was volunteering to take a 50% shot at getting killed, 25% shot at getting confirmed. Then he was like "what, oh hells no, I meant I would be the chaser" (lol right). So I could not really take anything away from that exchange.

Also, swiitch claiming my role freaked me out because I was already going to snap counter, but I was preparing for a seer fake. (I actually had the mason idea up my sleeve in case I ever really got any serious heat, but it never materialized so I figured when swiitch was hemming and hawing and not making a real claim I would use it to shake him up, then he shook me up by picking someone unexpected.)

Then there was the day with 2 lynches. Housenuts didn’t get the lynch in the first one, then either fcbl or patton comes in and says something like “wtf how did you guys not lynch housenuts!?!?! sun see yas later”

I did, too. It forced the nobles to kill housenuts, but then they didn't, and it was all down hill from there.

Why didn't the nobles ever kill mark_k?

Also, why the mass hypnosis thing when you did it? Seems like a waste if the only reason is to strengthen the case against mark, especially since it was pretty damn solid already (albeit wrong) and he was a likely night kill by the renegades at some point anyway by that time.

How did the village try to cheat (or are you talking about the guy aries and the lover thing?)

The nobles I am assuming you are talking about trying to letting MDD get mod killed?

Thanks for Modding VR and KM!!

Gogogogogo Bad Team #2!!

And someone needs to give me props on my Iggy read - I have zero idea how he made it to near endgame.

making deals with the nobles. cheating. plain and simple.
im glad they got burnt by it.

So, VR/GT1T, in the design stage did you think the nobles would go so convert happy? If so, did you think they would have missed in their chain, and hitting so many in a row would just be a low probability, high risk/reward play for them?

iggy was up for lynch day 1. i cant recall how he escaped.

I think working with the nobles would have given the village a better chance. We were mostly outed and the events would have done us in anyway. Going after the weakest faction instead of the strongest faction is dumb.

Incorrect, not cheating in the least. Was it cheating when the US and Britain allied with Russia in WWII? Or when Russia had a non aggression pact with Japan so they could focus their war efforts on Germany? In a three faction game, it is ok to play off each other. If it wasn't there would have been something in the rules.

yeah, typically thats why people cheat, to win.

Cheating involves violating rules.

We didn't get burnt by it.

also, to clarify:
when i say cheating, im not implying you guys are a bunch of stinking cheaters. im using the term a little loosely. know what im sayin?

Im glad renegades won if we couldn't

I'm shocked we got so close in the end, it looks like we had run like AIDS by the time I died. iggy played well imo.

how funny would it have been if patton had claimed renegade on the last day? after all he could easily have figured "well it's one wolf and one villager, he obv knows I'm the wolf."

The fact that I come on and said I was silenced is strange to you but this post didn't stick out?

Was it cheating when the germans bombed pearl harbor?

sour grapes when you won the game don't really make any sense.

I could say claiming seer as villager is cheating, but I'm not ******ed and I know what cheating means.

Yeah, like it is cheating to keep going for conversions for the easy win. Even though it is within the rules, and a strategic option to be used or not used depending on circumstances.

Check raising in poker, also cheating!

He's on a roll!

I was thinking for a lot of the game that if I ever had to fake a claim it would be the angel.

I was soooooo pissed that I ****ed up my claim, though. My wife really was telling me to get off the comp and help her with Jenna's bath. I counted the number of guys on our team at the time and remembered I missed a conversion on night 1, so I thought oh, ok 5 nights, forgetting that I didn't convert myself.

no.

3 people left in a tourney, 2 of them decide to help each other eliminate the third player so that they have a greater chance to win. cheating, right?

We wanted to design a game that was winnable for the renegades, but hard. We didn't think that they would be able to hit 5 in a row, or that they would determine that the risk/reward of converting was worth it that many times. 1/3 of the game was unconvertible on day 1, which would have meant only a 13% chance of 5 straight conversions just by picking randomly.

Village in a way inadvertently helped the renegade team by killing off so many nobles early, reducing the number of "whammy" targets. Also, imo, MDD and patton practically begged to be converted with their "look at me being a vanillager" posting.

And one thing that we really expected to be a balancing factor never happened, although it has happened in EVERY OTHER three faction game I've ever heard of...nobles never killed a renegade or vice versa. (Until the very very end.)

Also, in the original game design, the renegade faction lost its ability to convert when the original Ren died. Unfortunately in an early clarification pm to Swiitch, I gave misinfo and didn't realize it, which impacted the way the team played. At that point it was a matter of redressing the imbalance that I had created, and I think I did at least a semi-reasonable job of it without unduly penalizing any one team.

If you're saying it was against the spirit of the game or bad sportsmanship, you're still wrong, but I guess that's a matter of opinion so I won't argue any more.