I do this. Note that partner shouldn't cue the heart ace without a control in clubs -- he knows I'm missing the club control.

Mmm... depends on your cuebidding style, really. If you hAve the agreement to cue 1st round controls first, you could have a second rounder in clubs.

What would be absolutely ideal on this hand would be to have the agreement that after 1S-3S, 3NT is never to play but invites cuebidding. My regular partner and I have this agreement, but not sure if it necessarily applies here (it should, IMO).

This is basically the same analysis I did while I was thinking about my bid. I thought really hard about 4D, but eventually just bid 4S, and hoped that I'd get a non club lead.

I figured both those hands that you have above should be opened, so my partner must be a little worse. Maybe he has something like:

xxxx
xxx
AJxx
AJ

In any case, I'm pretty sure 4 making 5 is gonna be the spot about 80% of the time.

I open relatively light but there's no chance I'm opening either of those hands. They're awful.

You have a point there. I've been playing exclusively mixed cues (can be both 1st and 2nd round control) for well over 20 years now, so I'm just not really thinking about 1st round control cues.

I don't play the Serious 3NT thingy. It's probably a good idea, but I play mostly MPs, where you basically want to be able to bid 3NT to play because of he MP scoring.

This. I'm cueing the diamond void, and bidding 4s over 4h.

At IMPs, this could be a good agreement, but at MP's I think keeping 3N to play is overall a good thing. The other reason this could be bad here is that I could have opened a 4c spade suit in 3rd seat, though maybe I pass 3s then (but really, nt will probably play just as well).

I like 4D here. And I am a big believer in using 1S-3S,3NT to start cuebids. There are times at MP you prefer NT to a major but they aren't time you diagnose in that short of an auction.

Incidentally, I've been using aces-first cuebids for a long time... experimented trying to find a kings-and-aces-together approach I could stand but never found one. Most the kings-first crowd is forced to resort to Blackwood to ask how many of the controls are aces, a HUGE waste of bidding space.

To improve the efficiency of aces-first cues we have done two things: we allow cuebidding a king in a suit partner has promised (but not in our own suit), since that is a card we know is worth a trick to our partner, and a suit where he is likely to have the other high honour himself; and we've adopted the Ted Brashler - style 'sweep cuebid' rather than Serious 3NT. That is, with my regular partner, after 1S-3S,
3NT = slam interest, no CA
4C = CA, no DA
4D = CA and DA, no HA
4H = CA DA HA no CK
(4S signoff, 4NT Blackwood)
5C = CA DA HA CK no DK

In general, trump and notrump are 'waiting bids' denying the ability to make the next cuebid up the scale, cuebids below a waiting bid are simple oldfashioned cuebids, cuebids above a waiting bid promise one additional card for every step. So, after 1H-3H,
3S = SA, no other promises
3NT = denies SA and CA
4C = denies SA, shows CA, denies DA
4D = denies SA, shows CA DA

Anyway - a long digression. There is very little chance of a slam on the posted hand opposite a passed hand. I wouldn't even mind someone blasting to 4S at his first turn in 3rd or 4th seat.

That is basically exactly what my partner and I play. It's VERY useful.

edit to add: In fact, we also have the agreement that once we've started cuebidding, even 4NT is no longer BW but is waiting in this style. That's of more questionable value, but there's a lot to be said for consistency.

@DWetzel: 4NT is never BW for us either after cuebids begin. We worked out a set of rules for using the pair of waiting bids to show a trump honour, but are prone to forgetting those.

It's a shame it's not a more widely used system. People are soooo glued in to one bidding mold in this country

Does anyone else think that we need an 8-player POG team game some time?

Count me in.

I tried to get in last night's game, but they wouldn't let me in

yeah, time zones might be an issue for me though

Actually, as long as partners can communicate properly, it does not matter what system you use. When you find a partner who understands your bids and more importantly what you do NOT bid, the rest is ez

Some of us just happen to believe that mainstream 2/1 and its toys effectively prohibit proper communication in a few key situations

I have had partners that still ask for things that I have already denied in the bidding.

1H-P-1NT denies 4 spades, yet they try to find a 4-4 spade fit anyway.

In other situations the fact that I have NOT made a negative double when I had the opportunity to do so should tell partner that I do not have the 4 card major he hopes I have.

Situations like that are what is frustrating.

in

Yeah you were too alte to ask to be in. You only would of been the oldest player there by 20 years anyway.

If you guys would need another to get 8 and could stand a beginner...

We will always take a beginner.

I just played a tournament with the worst partner I have ever had. This person berated me for every bid I made, every play, everything. I guess he did not notice the name of the tournament was BRIDGE FOR FUN.

He did continually tell me how lousy I was and how much of an expert he was.

Stay away from Deepi on BBO.

Don't suppose there is any chance of making it a BAM...

We can make it whatever you want Sieg.

I'd be happy to play, but I never seem to see any of you guys on BBO.

Pick a day, pick a time.. lets see if we can make this happen.

I have been really busy lately, but I will try to play if people pick a date/time.

Also, is anyone going to the NABC in DC?