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05-14-2014 , 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
what will partner do with a 3442 beast over 3H? Answer: he will raise to 4H.
Well, I hope he does not.

With a hand that wants to just play game, he will bid 4S with that shape.
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05-14-2014 , 12:59 PM
Gabe, at what point are trump set in that auction?
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05-14-2014 , 01:30 PM
imo when take out doubler supports spades.

After (1D)-dbl-2S you are very unlikely going to play in hearts, unless when strong hand now bids 3H to show 5+. When you jump to 2S, you barely ever have 4H. With a 5/4 invitational hand you'd bid 2D and support partners 2H/S to 3H/S and be done with your hand.

So when doubler bids 3D imo this is: I haz spades and slam interest or I want to play NT but do not want to bid it. Now you need to further describe your hand and the most relevant information at this point is the placement of your HCP, since the information about your shape has been relayed already with high degree of accuracy.
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05-15-2014 , 01:58 AM
Long story short, I tanked. Not sure how to go about after a tank, I smashed 6S. If partner has Jh instead of Jd it is cold. Frustrating part is since it is club game, 4S scores really well. 6S down awful.

Alright another fun club hand

W/R MPs

♠ K 8 2
♥ A J
♦ —
♣ A Q J 7 6 5 4 3

You deal

1C (?)-(P)-1H-(2D)
??

Your bid, your plan
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05-15-2014 , 02:09 AM
5C
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05-15-2014 , 12:18 PM
Can't argue with 5C. 3D, then pulling to clubs no matter what could also be descriptive and give p a better chance of identifying a slam.
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05-15-2014 , 12:30 PM
I'll take the lowish road with 3C; 3H over 3D, 4H over 3H, 4D over 3S (I can't have real spades here so this should be pick a gameish), puke/4D? over 3NT, raise clubs one level if partner bids them
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05-15-2014 , 12:32 PM
And yes I am violating the "don't put down an 8 card suit in dummy" rule; match points are not bridge so it's ok
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05-17-2014 , 01:34 AM
Goddamn match points. Twice this week in perfect situation to underlead ace to try to get a ruff. But worried about giving up that extra trick. Both situations it would of worked too (but I did quiz my partners after, neither seemed confident about the ramifications of my lead, if I thought they would, probably would of made the lead easier).
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05-18-2014 , 11:56 PM
Red at IMPs

9xxx
Axxxxx
A
xx

Partner opens 1S. What is your bid playing a normal 2/1?
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05-19-2014 , 01:53 AM
imo there are 3 valid approaches.

2H followed by supporting spades. You lack the HCP for this, but the playing strength of your hand makes up for it and it shows your suit, which might be important for partner to know.

A direct 4D. Again, you do not have the HCP, but two aces make up a decent lot for that. I don't like splintering a bare A though. If you repeat you diamond cue, partner will usually assume you have a void.

Finally a direct 4S, promising some distributional hand. I think you are a tad strong for that and a spade light, but it is not ridiculous

Anything you do that shows a limit hand is wrong. You are going to play game with this hand.

I think I like 2H best.
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05-19-2014 , 02:28 AM
4 is definitely ridiculous.
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05-19-2014 , 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlzBeALevel
4 is definitely ridiculous.
No it is not. It is your most likely final contract and it kills the possibilities of LHO to cheaply show a minor 2-suiter he might have and find a good save.

If partner has slam visions he can inquire aces and you will not be worried.

It kinda depends on your partnership agreements for 4s, maybe in your agreements 4s does not fit, but calling it ridiculous is ridiculous.
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05-19-2014 , 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe

Anything you do that shows a limit hand is wrong. You are going to play game with this hand.
If your limit raise is artificial, then it isn't wrong. I would make a bergen raise with this, and then raise 3S to 4S. Partner will know I am distributional with better values than a direct 4S.
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05-19-2014 , 09:57 AM
in precision i would bid 4S

i'd bid 2H in 2/1
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05-19-2014 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrrrr
in precision i would bid 4S

i'd bid 2H in 2/1
In precision this is a non-problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
If your limit raise is artificial, then it isn't wrong. I would make a bergen raise with this, and then raise 3S to 4S. Partner will know I am distributional with better values than a direct 4S.
It will be fun though if partner takes time and bids 3S.
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05-19-2014 , 01:16 PM
I'm pretty much with gabe. If your agreements are that 4S can be this strong (which is, imo, a bad agreement, but whatever) then the bid is fine. Playing standard 2/1, lying (sort of) with 2H looks best. The splinter has the problems he mentioned.

Artificial limit raise, then raise to 4, is a clever idea. Gabe is right that a slow 3S will screw you, so you have to be confident that partner won't do it. I would still choose it if I have that path available (and tell partner to quit the tanking if that's how it goes), but if I don't, I'm bidding 2H.
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05-19-2014 , 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
In precision this is a non-problem



It will be fun though if partner takes time and bids 3S.
Get a partner who plans his bids out before it gets to him...

The other alternative is 1NT (if forcing) then 4S.
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05-19-2014 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
The other alternative is 1NT (if forcing) then 4S.
Never ever in your life consider bidding 1NT Forcing with 4 trumps to partner's major.
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05-19-2014 , 01:31 PM
fwiw, here's why I don't like 4S in a 2/1 context:

AKxxx
K
xxxxx
Ax

or

KQxxxx
x
Kxx
Axx

When slam is excellent and a grand possible opposite a perfect minimum, we shouldn't be signing off. So if 4S is a signoff, it's a poor bid. (It's not ridiculous, as explained, unless you have the agreement that it is always weaker than this... but even if this hand is within its range I wouldn't choose it, because of hands like this.)

There's also something like

AKQxx
KQx
xx
Axx

Granted, with this hand pard might move after 1S – 4S, but he also might not and it will be costly playing a nearly-cold grand in game.
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05-19-2014 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
Never ever in your life consider bidding 1NT Forcing with 4 trumps to partner's major.
In some partnerships this would be a reasonable approach, too. 1NT has to be absolutely forcing, partner never ever ever getting clever, but if you play it that way then it can show this hand. Unfortunately it often won't help you find a slam when it's on (see my example hands above — you probably miss both small slams), so 2H remains better.

The reason is the two aces. Pard will get the massage that you have five(ish) trumps and decent values, but two aces, and a six card suit to boot, he'll never guess.
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05-19-2014 , 01:45 PM
Some pairs play 3NT here as "a bit strong for a 4S bid" and that's a decent use for the bid.

Without that, it's a problem; I think 4S > 2H > 3S~= 4D~=2NT jacoby
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05-19-2014 , 02:56 PM
My partner and I modified bergen raises... here is our auction to show this hand:

1S-3C! (4 card raise 10-15)
3D!-3H! (asks; 10-12 some shortness)
3NT!-4D! (asks; diamond shortness)

If you don't call this 10-12, then our auction is

1S-1NT! (forcing)
2x-4S! (distributional raise, 3-9pts, 4-5 spades, outside A/K)


1S-4S for us is 5 trumps, 0-5, no side ace or king.
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05-19-2014 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
Red at IMPs

9xxx
Axxxxx
A
xx

Partner opens 1S. What is your bid playing a normal 2/1?
2H seems like the best option

Jacoby 2NT as a second choice


im guessing its not available but 3S as old-fashioned limit raise would also be ok
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05-19-2014 , 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
2H seems like the best option

Jacoby 2NT as a second choice


im guessing its not available but 3S as old-fashioned limit raise would also be ok
I think a limit raise is seriously ungood. Partner will pass with a lot of hands that make game good or cold. Consider, e.g., QJTxx KJ xxx Axx — partner is already feeling a little guilty about opening, yet you will be +170 or +200 against an almost certain 620/650 at the other table. (Lose 10.) We should never let this auction stop short of game, and making a limit raise is about the only way you can manage to miss it barring a mistake.
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