Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Bridge Bridge

04-27-2014 , 12:57 PM
Count me in the "would have bid 2H last time" camp.

Can't wait to hear what inferential information I'm not considering.
Bridge Quote
04-27-2014 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
Hell of a 6d, not seeing it after a standard 1d-1s-2nt start. Requires some quite some agreements after that point.

SHROOP? Chuckles is a wolf here.
Bridge Quote
04-27-2014 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWetzel
Count me in the "would have bid 2H last time" camp.

Can't wait to hear what inferential information I'm not considering.
Hearts are breaking so why would you want to play in diamonds if you can get 6 diamond tricks and 4 hearts
Bridge Quote
04-27-2014 , 07:30 PM
Because they might get a diamond ruff in hearts, for one thing. (responder might splinter with 3316, or he might not; opener may have 4414 or 4315 or something as well.)

Also because I expect to stop in 4H never.

Also because I think I want to take key card and cue bids away; sometimes we get 6C-1, after all.
Bridge Quote
04-28-2014 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
There is some important inferential information you are not considering...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc-ohio
Hearts are breaking so why would you want to play in diamonds if you can get 6 diamond tricks and 4 hearts
If my partner passes 1C and later offers 4H, I'm going to assume his hand is good enough to compete to the 5 level but his suit wasn't good enough to overcall 1H

Last edited by brrrrr; 04-28-2014 at 11:48 AM. Reason: or 2H
Bridge Quote
04-28-2014 , 04:37 PM
Obviously I'm competing in diamonds, not hearts, in part because, as DW says, we probably can't stop in hearts anyway. (The only way would be if we bid hearts, bad guys doubled [extremely unlikely], and partner let the double swing around to us.)

We have to decide how high to compete here. Partner saw a game-invitational or better fit auction by the bad guys, a passing partner even over a 1C opening, and favorable vulnerability; he bid 3D. Not four diamonds, three. To me, that says he might have just six diamonds, but let's pretend seven for now. It also tells me he has utter trash — if your partner is the type to sandbag this bid with two or three side cards, hoping they'll find 3NT when it's very wrong, adjust accordingly.

On this assumption, namely that partner has roughly KQJxxx(x) of diamonds and out, the bad guys will be making 6C most of the time (the only exception being when hearts are 5=3=2=3 around the table and RHO doesn't have a fourth-round spade winner); 7 will depend on whether they have a place to put the other heart loser (the answer being often yes; though notice it's unlikely a squeeze will operate because we probably hold the guards over both threats). If pard's diamonds are headed by the ace, or they're not but he has a side winner, they are still usually making six., but in that case not seven. Meanwhile, we are likely to make between six and eight tricks, with one degree of freedom for ace-or-not and one for the seventh diamond. That means 6D will be down between 800 and 1400, thus will be a good sacrifice against 6C. (When we go for 1400, they make 1390; it's IMPs so w/e.) My guess is that if we gun 6D right now they will never bid on, having not had a chance to check for aces; this will give them the last guess, and they'll get it quite wrong now and then, a little bit right occasionally.

However, if pard could have a couple of stray winners when coupled with our hearts, 6C is dead meat and even 5C may be in jeopardy. Over a right-now 5D, they probably don't bid on very often when these are the hands, and we buy it for –300 to –800 (I'm giving us one extra trick versus the weak scenario) against their 600 or so. That's last guess for us only to the extent we're worried about the 800; I like these odds too. On the other hand, when partner has nothing but diamonds I think they do bid on over 5D; we can then judge whether to sacrifice over the slam. Unfortunately if we trust their bidding we'll need to do so, and will ahve missed the opportunity to leave them fully in the dark. So the right level is going to depend on how likely partner is to have xxx xx KQT9xx xx and how likely to have QJx xxx AQJ9xx Jx

What I don't like is allowing them to ask for aces. 4H (4NT) 5D (P/X/5H/5S) is a sequence that just gave us the last guess, because they can now bid to the right level most of the time.

To me, this adds up to both 5D and 6D being potential winners, and 4H being a loser. I'm not worried about esoteric **** like 5H, lead directional against 6NT. A legitimate concern is that as mild a bid as 4D could keep them out of an otherwise good notrump contract; assuming pard's bidding is normal, opponents are going to be at least as aggressive (probably more so) at the other table, so I'm not winning the board by lowballing it unless partner's hand is pretty weird.

Bottom line: 6D right now if partner is very likely to be straightforwardly aggressive in this spot; 5D will be enough (I choose to hope) if partner is creative, or unknown. No number of hearts is necessary or appropriate.

Last edited by Shrike; 04-28-2014 at 04:53 PM.
Bridge Quote
04-28-2014 , 04:50 PM
Side note: Because I am not planning on bidding hearts, I am leading a suit preference low diamond. When and if hearts does get played, I am concealing the heart king (showing instead the queen-jack or queen-jack-ten), because showing declarer the king-queen-(jack) of hearts, with length once he works that out, will locate every other high card in partner's hand. That wouldn't help matters.
Bridge Quote
04-28-2014 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike
(The only way would be if we bid hearts, bad guys doubled [extremely unlikely], and partner let the double swing around to us.)
This is the remaining auction:

4H-(P)-P-(X)
P-(P)-P

Partner has

Kxx
xx
AKTxxx
xx

Lead is a club to the A, club return. RHO has Axxx, Axx, Qx, Axxx
Bridge Quote
04-29-2014 , 02:09 AM
lol 3D

That is a 2D overcall, you have a real hand. Opposite 2D I'm probably not even bidding.

Don't argue with success I guess. What ******s defended this contract. It is not hard to lead a high club and shift to spades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike
Side note: Because I am not planning on bidding hearts, I am leading a suit preference low diamond. When and if hearts does get played, I am concealing the heart king (showing instead the queen-jack or queen-jack-ten), because showing declarer the king-queen-(jack) of hearts, with length once he works that out, will locate every other high card in partner's hand. That wouldn't help matters.
You are making your partner's life overly complicated. Just lead the Kh and partner will defend correctly.
Bridge Quote
04-29-2014 , 07:47 AM
one last tale from G-burg...

Sunday A/X swiss, round 3-board 6 of 7. Opponents seem to be very strong A players. You have a strong feeling you are down when opponents get to a real thin game that takes a very technical line to make. Almost 0% chance your partners are going to push that board.

1st seat R/W

You open 1H on

Axx
QJTxx
Jxx
Kx

A bit light, but well within our opening style at IMPs. LHO bids 2D and partner passes. At this point RHO goes into the tank for a bit. He finally comes out after about a 90 second think with 3NT. You confidently double. LHO and partner both pass and RHO goes back into the tank. Now the poker face comes on and I'm sitting there like I just pushed all-in on the river on a busted flush draw. RHO finally reaches into the box and out comes... 4D.

All pass.

RHO had

x
AKxx
Jxxx
AQxx

Making 6.

Unfortunately we still lost the round by 2 imps...
Bridge Quote
04-29-2014 , 01:39 PM
I'm with gabe in being puzzled by partner's bidding. If that's among the hands you expect for him, okee dokey.

The defense obviously should take the first four or five tricks depending on the heart spots, with one more to come. Against diamonds, they should take five including the uppercut —> trump promotion.
Bridge Quote
04-29-2014 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
You are making your partner's life overly complicated. Just lead the Kh and partner will defend correctly.
Sometimes, yeah, but particularly if they get to slam I would rather our diamond trick not go away on a spade. At matchpoints a diamond lead is therefore clear against six clubs; at IMPs, idk for sure but I think a diamond start is often going to be best.

If partner's style suggests that his holding the diamond ace is very unlikely on this bidding, or if the opps' later auction winds up telling me that, then I agree that a heart out is best. Starting with the queen will be costless if partner is the type to realize I may be creative here; if he's not, then I agree with you.
Bridge Quote
04-30-2014 , 08:15 PM
+2300's are always fun. I believe that is the highest score I have ever gotten.
Bridge Quote
04-30-2014 , 09:06 PM
Best club round I ever had, against someone who was a newer player at the time but now makes regular appearances in the Top 500 lists at the end of the year/etc (his partner for this round does not, though):

+2000
+1100
+880

24/24 mp

I wish I could remember more of the details.
Bridge Quote
05-05-2014 , 07:27 PM
you reach 4h vul with ops silent


92
KQT982
AQ64
7

A86
J3
J92
AQ942



E leads the J of spades.. plan the play
Bridge Quote
05-06-2014 , 05:04 PM
I assume east didn't overtake the spade jack? (Probably an error imo — should overtake and return a club.)

Scoring is IMPs?
Bridge Quote
05-06-2014 , 05:30 PM
Assuming the answers to those questions are yes, my approach isn't too sophisticated and probably isn't best, but:
Spoiler:
Duck the first spade; a shift is unlikely and will rarely hurt (note for example that neither opponent is at all likely to have a singleton or void.), and RHO might forget to unblock a stiff trump ace. (Unlikely, but whatever.) They also might foul up their signals if RHO has something like KJT75 xx Kx Kxxx, which would otherwise beat you (if you play as I describe below).

Win the probable spade continuation, ruff a spade, and play trump. Opps are likely to win the ace and continue trump, but the ace could be stiff or they could err. If they win and return a diamond, play let it run around to the queen or jack, regardless whence it comes. If east plays clubs, win the ace.

When you are in, finish drawing trump if any remain, play (or cross to, for the trump play) the diamond ace, and play a low diamond. If nothing good happens (i.e., no K or T appears), play the jack. You make it unless west started with Kx or KTxx. In the former case you still make it if west is forced (or chooses) to return a club; in either case you can fall back on the club finesse if it's still available and diamonds don't break.

Edit: Looking back at this I see I'm also losing to 4–0 hearts most of the time. Maybe it's wrong to ruff the third spade; I guess the chances that LHO will be endplayed after winning the trump ace (only if he errs earaly on) or the diamond king (pretty much requires him to have started with exactly KJT of spades and Tx of diamonds), are lower than that trump are 4–0 either way and spades are laid out in such a way that I can be tapped. So change the above to win second spade, play trump, etc. (Plus, I'd prefer that if RHO wins the trump ace and can't return a trump, he have available a safe spade exit rather than putting us to an early decision in clubs, holding something like Qxx A Txxx Kxxxx.)

Edit 2: I missed another possibility: RHO ducks the second round of diamonds with KTx(x). You have no safe way back so you have to hope for the 3–3 split. I think that means that it's better not to begin diamonds by cashing the ace. Hmmph.
I'm pretty sure I'm missing some extra chances, but that's probably how I'd play it.

Last edited by Shrike; 05-06-2014 at 05:50 PM.
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 11:07 AM
Revised plan.
Spoiler:
Win the spade continuation. (If LHO shifts to a minor, you can pretty much claim. [Actually if he shifts to diamonds and your jack is allowed to win, you will still go down when RHO started with KTxx and LHO with the club king. I don't think this is happening, though.]) If he shifts to RHO's heart ace and a club comes back, bummer; see below.)

Play a low heart from hand. If either opponent wins and exits a heart, play diamonds; if either opponent wins and exits a spade, ruff and draw trump, then play diamonds. If LHO wins and plays a club, draw trump and claim; if RHO wins and plays a club, see below.

Having drawn trump with the minors untouched, play low toward the jack (retaining the ace).
  • If RHO hops with the king, claim.
  • If the jack loses and a club comes back, claim. If a spade comes back, ruff and play the ace (watching for the ten) and queen. If the initial diamond layout was Kx/Txxx play the rest of your trumps, show-up squeezing RHO if he has the club king; you lose if he doesn't. If the initial layout was KTxx/xx, again run the trumps, then play toward your club honors, hoping for inspiration (or a discarding mistake by RHO, though it's not likely). Note that if LHO also had the heart ace, he does not have the club king because with 14 HCP he would have acted over (what I presume was the) very weak notrump opening. (I'm assuming something like 1NT [10–12] – 4D!; 4H.) On all other diamond layouts, claim. If a diamond comes back, win on the board, draw any remaining trump, claim if the diamond ten dropped or they were 3–3, and play for the minor suit finesse-or-squeeze if either opponent started with four to the ten. (You again have a guess if it's LHO.)
  • If the jack holds, you have an interesting choice. I think the best choice is to play low to the ace. If the king and ten remain outstanding, run all the trumps but one in case someone makes a mistake, then guess. KTxx either side can happen 12 of the remaining 32 ways while the club finesse is 50/50 with the information you have at this point, so I'd probably play for the break. (The alternative to low to the ace, if trump are all drawn at this point, is to run the 9. This saves a guess on all 3–3 breaks, but gives up the legitimate chance against Tx/Kxxx and the clubs not friendly. Since imo you should play for 3–3 anyway, when you've won the first two rounds and now hold 9/Qx, you'd be giving something up for no gain.)
If early in the hand you face a club play from RHO, you'll need to hop ace and then rely on the diamonds to work, as this breaks up the squeeze when either opp has four diamonds to the ten and the club king. But an extra chance, if you've confirmed by then that hearts aren't 4–0, is to win the ace and then ruff a club, hoping to drop a doubleton king. But I wouldn't attempt this approach unless it's forced on you, because I don't believe the extra chance of exactly Kx on your left plus being able to get to the established queen in time (requiring the diamond king on the right), makes up for K(x) of diamonds on your left and club king on the right.

Last edited by Shrike; 05-07-2014 at 11:23 AM.
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 11:37 AM
I would normally reverse declarer and dummy hand when providing a play problem (dummy in the north).

I fail to see the problem and grab As trick 1 and play Jh
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
I would normally reverse declarer and dummy hand when providing a play problem (dummy in the north).

I fail to see the problem and grab As trick 1 and play Jh
5-0 split with both minor kings offside. But I still don't think you can make if you have this problem?
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 12:27 PM
What I meant when I said that I see no problem is that I don't see how else I can play the hand from trick 1 and be better off - ducking the spade lead for example, I see no benefit.
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 12:33 PM
Maybe weird layouts like 5-0 in trumps and 6-2 in spades and you need to duck trick 1.

It is all very unlikely
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
What I meant when I said that I see no problem is that I don't see how else I can play the hand from trick 1 and be better off - ducking the spade lead for example, I see no benefit.
I ducked it to prevent ace of hearts on left —> cross in spades for a club through, breaking up a squeeze when LHO started with e.g., KJT Ax KTxx Kxxx and declined or was unable to act in the auction. (Also if you move the spade king to RHO, and for whatever reason have him not overtake trick one.)
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 12:54 PM
Aha, I thought dummy WAS in the north, and the lead was from west. If the lead is coming from east, then yes, I take the spade ace at trick one because I fear that same shift.
Bridge Quote
05-07-2014 , 01:19 PM
scoring was imps

i found this to be an interesting play problem because even though 9 tricks are easy it doesn't seem obvious what sequence will maximize the chances of taking a 10th, especially with limited entries to dummy

ideally it seems like we want to plan for 3 diamond winners, only falling back on the club finesse as a last resort (and if defenders allow us to save it as a last resort)


like atak mentioned, an expert defender might overtake the j of spades and immediately play a club

assuming we win the first trick with the ace our options seem to be


1. play low to the j of diamonds after drawing trump

2. play low to the 9 of diamonds after drawing trump

3. play ace and low to the j of diamonds after drawing trump

4. play ace and low to the 9 of diamonds after drawing trump

5. run the j of dimes immediately

6. play low to the queen immediately

7. play ace of clubs and ruff a club


also if we choose to forgo drawing trumps immediately, we run some risk of having a dime ruffed by opponents



i don't know the answer, but technically i imagine there is a correct answer

Last edited by monikrazy; 05-07-2014 at 01:28 PM.
Bridge Quote

      
m