You have a club void. It can very easily go 5C with opponents and 5H from partner under pressure.

ok well for those who dislike the double what exactly should 4d promise?

very strong (17+) hand with 6+ diamonds?

I play it as diamonds + major

3D and 5D are natural, so I reserved 4D for twosuiters.
4C would be majors.

With your hand I probably just bid 5D. That seems like actually playing bridge and bidding your hand

system question

vul all imps

ops are silent

J8
QJ4
AQT86
J65


Auction goes:

1S - 1N (forcing) - 2S - 2N (invitational) - 3N


Opener shows up with
AQ7542
AK6
K32
8


This auction denies 'good 2 card trump support' for opener, but not a weak doubleton. Here I opted to treat my j8 like a weak doubleton (I doubt this treatment is universal).


My question is what would 3C, 3D and 3H after 2N normally show? Is natural and gameforcing the most common treatment. (and presumably the follow-up of 3s by me would then admit to 2-card trump support)

if possible, ignore the fact that opener better describes his hand by bidding 3S directly over 1N.

I mean, you can make the argument that those might be stopper showing (I guess that is implicitly what you are asking), but then tell me how to bid AQT9xx x AKxx xx or so and have it mean what I want it to mean and also play 2S at IMPs when partner wants to just bid 1NT then pass.

Noted that partner could bid 2S (it is close).

Noted also that 3S is probably right with your hand because of the club problem (partner has of course promised 6 spades in blood), as compared to J8 QJx QT8xx AJx where 2NT is more correct than with the actual hand.

Ugh... I hate this treatment. If 2S over 1S-1NT shows 6 always (which it should), then you absolutely should be showing your 2 card support. I don't really care if it is the trey-deuce... I want to know we have a fit.

If you must play this treatment (and I'm not sure why you would) 3x over 2NT should be stopper showing and forward going.

Part of the blame does lie with partner though for not bidding 3S with his prime 5 loser single suiter...

That isn't a 3S rebid imo. Primes, yeah, but the high cards are minimum and the spots suck balls. That hand will not be missing a game after a 2S rebid, provided partner is awake. I wouldn't hate a 3S rebid, but I also wouldn't make it unless I systemically open quite light. (I do, but I mean in a normal partnership.)

I'm with DW: after 2NT, opener's new suit bids are suits. There's little need for stopper showing when pard has already bid 2NT. There are more complex agreements you can have here, of course.

I'd probably have rebid 3S as responder, but I strongly disagree with dc that you "absolutely" should raise spades with any doubleton. Give him something like 32 KJT KJ96 KJ98 and it not only isn't automatic, it's awful.

I agree that this is not a 3S rebid with such an empty suit. It is OK sometimes to bid 2S and have a max.

You were a bit unlucky to find partner with a singleton club, but that is karma hitting you, because the 2NT bid is wrong.

The J8 is biddable support and 3S is the correct bid imo. In cases like this, also consider your other three suits. In this case you see a 3-card clubs without stopper, so that must guide you to the correct path. Also if partner would have had a singleton heart, 3NT would have been horrible almost surely as well. You have your strength in your long suit.

if you have

J8
QJ4
JT865
AQ6


2NT is a lot better

Also the 3NT is a bit dubious with a singleton club. What would 3D be after 2NT? Could you do that with 3 diamonds and a club leak or does it 100% show 4 diamonds?

IMO it promises 4 diamonds (but it's one of those situations where "promises" and "delivers" don't always meet -- unlike the 2S rebid, where you know it's super duper for real 6+ spades).

Especially at IMPs, when 5D might actually be the right contract, and not just a "technically correct but who cares because everyone's in 3NT anyway" matchpoint contract.

This area hadn't come up for us before and I'm trying to figure out some common methods. Presumably 3S signoff would be universal.

My ideas so far:

Shortness - Would bid a singleton (not a singleton ace) or doubleton in a suit without 1 of the top 2 honors. This would give responder a chance to offer a choice of games in the other major.

Feature-showing: Show your first available stopper bidding up the line. This is a bit awkward given your partner has all-ready declared NT.

Natural: Bid your next-best longest suit, even if it is 3 cards.

Stopper-ask: Shows suitability for NT but denies useful values in suit bid.




And of course, bids could be used in a much more artificial manner.

imo you cannot bid shortness in this sequence because you want 3H to be natural, there can still be a 8-card fit in hearts.

that, plus bidding shortness really really invites lead-directing doubles in a way you probably don't want to

plus you really don't have enough space to do anything too fancy here

some sort of artificial 3C bid here might not be the worst thing ever, at first glance, but it's probably not worth it

Oh man this Vanderbilt final...if anyone isnt watching it start now

this is setup to be an all time sick ending

Congrats to thorladen for beating Monaco for the Vandy final

Cliffs on final set (or all of it for that matter)?

bd 58 was the sickest board

you have

x
Kxxxxxx
xx
Kxx

you deal auction goes

p-(1C)-X-(1S)
4H-(4S)-5D-(5S)
p-(6S)-7D-(P)
P-(7S)-AP

Your lead

Partner can't have that hand because we have the red kings...

I can't see how i can ever show partner I have a 5 loser hand after he passes my 2S rebid with xx Qxxx QJx Jxxxx. I'm not trying to miss a vulnerable game here at IMPs (They still do give bonuses for these right?)

I probably would have shot my partner if he didn't lead a diamond here. 30 Imp swings are sick yo...

I think the problem at the other table was interesting as well

T
AQ
AKQJT8xx
xx

r/r

4C shows S+C
2H (4C) 4D (4H)
p (4S) 5D (5s)
p (p) ?

rodders got it right

I know that; my point was that an automatic rule that we raise a six-bagger when we bid on and have doubleton support is a poor one.


Even with your example hand, game is not a great bet. (I don't know the exact probability but it looks to me to be under 35%.) And yes, you can tweak it to be better. But the question isn't whether bidding 3S will sometimes get you to a making game you'd otherwise miss (it will), it's whether it will do so enough to make up for the times you go down as a result. My guess is that because of the lousy trump spots, it won't, except in a partnership whose openings are often very weak. (As I said, I like to play that way but most 2/1 partnerships don't.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eating.html?fb

bertstare.gif