AJTxx AKQxxx - xx

Qxxxx 98xxx 87x A



North opens 1H.....question is, is the South hand too good to jump to 4H here?

Whats the modern treatment for jumping to 4M in terms of outside controls? Should it be purely distributional and denying an outside ace?


And should North bid on if South jumps to 4H?

South is too good to jump to 4H imo. This is a 1NT(F1) then 4H or even 1S then see what happens.

In my partnership, if we jump to 4M over 1M we are denying any outside 1st/2nd rd controls. The jump after a forcing NT shows this hand.

Our auction would probably have been

1H-1NT(F1)
2S(GF)-3H
3S(control)-4C(courtesy/non-serious control bid)
5D(EKCB)-5H(1 keycard)
6H

If the auction started

1H-4H

I think I'd have bid 4S as north...

Interesting. Just curious, why 1N instead of 1S?

I have a known 10 card fit... i'm usually not looking for a side fit. Worst case scenario is that we end up playing in spades for some reason and the opening heart lead gets ruffed leading to us being set.

After partner opens this hand in hearts, i'm pretty sure we're playing there.

Right, hearts is where you're going to play. Just figured if you were going to choose the 1N - 4H route may as well show spades on the way to find out if there is a double fit since 1S is forcing anyway.

The auction can get jammed up if partner has a strong hand with spades as he does here

1H-1S
4S-?

or on this hand

1H-1S
4D-?

Now partner is almost always putting us in a spade contract leading to the potential problem of an opening heart ruff.

Thing is, south has a pretty good hand, and he can massively discount his heart losers when he's counting them. I'd bid 1S-then-4H. It's pretty damn close to 4H though. I'd bid 4H without the CA, but I don't want to oversell this hand.

Re: 1S v 1N. The benefit of 1S is that if partner has Hx or something, he can value it highly, which is what you want. But if you have a (5-4+) spade fit, you're basically never playing in hearts now, and now you're vulnerable to an opening heart ruff if they can find it. On frequency, he won't have a fit too often, so this is the route I choose. I can definitely understand the value of bidding 1N and being able to unambiguously show hearts, but you don't get any of the side features of your hand across. I am sure you'll find people doing both.

Side comment: I think denying outside 2nd rd controls is insane. IMO you shouldn't be jumping to 4H without shortness. And I think xxx / xxxxx / Kxxx / x is a pretty normal jump to 4H, and you don't want to be taking the same approach (1N-4H) with this hand and the one in OP. Also I don't understand your comment at all -- you say that 4H denies an outside 1st/2nd rd control but you'd bid over 1H-4H...

If we bid 1S... I disagree that partner will bid 4S here. He's got 4 losers and can definitely do something more (4D seems about right), after which I'll just cue 5C. Partner will show the void with 5D, and we'll just bid 5S and he just has to raise with his hand (or bid 6H in which case we'll play 6S). Yes this is probably vulnerable to an opening ruff and a bad spade layout. This is a bad layout for our approach here.

If we took the 1N route, we hit the friggin jackpot when partner reverses into spades (which is not GF for me). Then 3H by us IS GF and sets trump. Now partner bids 3N, a serious spade cue (DC -- I recommend that in ser/non situations in hearts, you invert 3S/3N), and we bid 4C. Now he'll ERKC in diamonds as long as LHO didn't dbl 4C for the lead , and we'll play 6H.

Not sure why S has 14 cards

I've had this discussion before with Atakdog, but 1NT must 100% deny 4-card support. it is sooooooooo important in competitive situations to know the size of the fit.

I would just bid 1H-4H with this hand, hoping opps do not find a potentially profitable minor suit save. After 4H, N has a superduperobvious 4S cuebid, fishing for a club control and S has a superduperobvious 5C cue. You can't possibly miss 6h after that.

I don't like 1S, because the spade suit is not good enough.

I think many expert pairs play 1H - 3NT as the "4H shape, slightly more strength" hand. With that agreement I think it's pretty borderline between that and 4H; without that agreement I can't see any other call than 4H here.

Haha sorry. This hand was given to me by someone else, didn't even notice that. I presume the shape was 5521 but I'll find out.

Yes I really like this agreement and would consider this a good raise to 4H (so id bid 3n).

Interesting. For those who use that (1M-3N as slightly better than 1M-4M), what is this sequence? 1M - 1N ; 2x - 4M?

Dustin, IMO that should be a flat 12-14 with 3 hearts. With 4 you'd use jacoby or splinter.

So essentially you lose 3N as a choice of games

Basically.

You don't lose a natural 3NT, that's what forcing 1nt followed by 3nt is for.

imo "I was going to invite but i'm too good after 2x"

i very much prefer always bidding 2C with this hand with a GF (in a semi-forcing NT context preferably)

and for some of the newer players, i also feel very strongly that with 4324 (and even 4342!) shape and a GF hand opposite a 1H opener that 2C and NOT 1S is the correct bid.

it's very important to establish the GF at a low level. you can always find a 4-4 spade fit next if one exists and more importantly after the auction 1H-1S; 2m-? you have no way to support H and force to game. You can bid 4th suit forcing but then partner will never expect you to have 3-card support.

Do you also bid 2C with 4234 over 1H?

meh

I hate it

If you have 4324 or 4342, you ONLY need to establish a forcing heart fit if you have a slamgoing hand. How often does that happen? Mostly you will just bid 1H-1S-2m-4H with a GF hand and 3H.

The low frequency of these slamgoing hands allows me to put it in the awkward 4th-suit-forcing-followed-by-supporting-hearts sequence. In 50% of the case, the 4th forcing will be at comfortable low level (1H-1S-2C-2D), much more awkward is 1H-1S-2D-3C.

This makes the 1S/2C responses to 1H be as natural as possible. Due to the frequency of the 1S/2C response I think that is fairly important.

That's not bad, except for me it runs up against another favorite convention of mine, wherein one can distinguish between singleton and void splinters.

In response to 1S:

• 3NT — four+ card support, unspecified singleton
  • 4C — asks
    • 4D — diamond singleton (this can be played differently)
    • 4H — heart singleton
    • 4S — club singleton (the missing suit)
  • 4D, 4H — whatever you want them to be
  • 4S — no slam interest opposite any singleton
• 4C/4D/4H — void in the bid suit, four+ card support

In response to 1H, we scale downward:

• 3S — four+ card support, unspecified singleton
  • 3NT — asks
    • 4C — club singleton
    • 4D — diamond singleton
    • 4H — spade singleton (the missing suit)
  • 4C, 4D — whatever you want them to be
  • 4H — no slam interest opposite any singleton
• 3NT — spade void, four+ card support
• 4C/4D — void in the bid suit, four+ card support

I'm with gabe 100% about by passing spades with 4=3=2=4 (his post 10,220).

I do bypass on some auctions, but not that one. (The only one that comes to mind is 1m – 1H; 1NT with some 4=2=x=x hands with unexciting spades and tenaces to protect.)

I played this after 1H:
2S (garozzo spl)-2NT (relay)
3C/3D/3H = limit, splinter
3NT = 4h, bal, 15+
3S/4C/4D = strong splinter, 15+
4H=No splinter, 15+, usually 5332 with 5card support.

Direct 3S, 3NT, 4C/D are limited GF hands, 12-14.

1H-3C was 7-9, 4H
1H-3D was bal limit, 4H
1H-3H was 0-6 preempt, 4H. Very effective.

BBO down for anyone else?

please be a level