why isn't 3S automatic?

Meh, we have eight spades, we ought to play there. It might be wrong. It's not way wrong. The fact that my 6 card suit looks like a 5 card suit is an influence; make this hand xxx KQJxxx Ax xx and I want to play 4H of course.

Assuming you mean on the first round: it's because most people like to show the immediate limit raise to show 4+ trumps. (That helps partner make a better decision). You'd go through the forcing notrump first to show a limit raise with exactly three spades.

If you aren't playing a forcing notrump, then you'd want to bid 2H (not GF) then 3S to show the hand.

Thanks guys. I guess my concern is that partner will pass with a flat 12 count, and (I think) I still want to be in game even across that hand. In other words, I guess I'm evaluating this hand to be a tad too good for a limit raise. Maybe I'm wrong.

Playing 2/1, your forcing notrump really is forcing — partner doesn't pass with a flat 12 count, or anything else. (If he has psyched his opening, that's his problem.)

Playing standard (thus no forcing 2/1), your 2H bid is absolutely forcing for a round. A partner who would pass that is a partner you need to stop playing with.


Re the evaluation issue: It's a seven loser hand and most limit raises are eight losers, but it has only three trumps and your long suit is pretty bad. Your overall high cards are average (includes an ace but also quacks, and no tens) and your shape is interesting but not awesome. It's a limit raise.

The average random 12 count you're worried about is something like A9xxx Qx Qxx KJx. You don't want to be in game opposite that.

If you think the hand is worth a game force (I disagree, but I sort of see the point), then just bid 2H then some game-forcing number of spades (if nothing else is forcing to 4S, then you can always just bid it) on the next round. Sometimes partner will surprise you with a 3H raise, or a 4C splinter, or something equally awesome.

But, yeah, if 1NT is forcing (not semi-forcing), then you're safe to bid it. 1NT then 4S would kinda show this hand, if this hand was flatter and had a couple more high card points. Something like QJx Kxxxx Ax Qx is probably a reasonably sensible

1S - 1NT*
2something - 4S

auction.

If 1NT is not absolutely forcing, then 2H had better be, and then bidding the cheapest number of spades next time will be a good approximation. (Reverse the suits, to say QJx xx Ax Kxxxxx, and I might bid this

1S - 2C
2red - 2S

with the wife to show about 10 points, 3 spades, and a club suit. (Heck, if the hands misfit terribly I might even be able to get out in 2 spades instead of 3, which is nice.)

If partner doesn't know if 1NT is absolutely forcing, get a new partner or talk it over with this one.

I have a great deal of sympathy for a 2H response playing 2/1, a 7-loser hand with a well-placed QJ in partner's suit.

I have certainly played with partners who open so light that this isn't a game force - but most of those partners weren't playing 2/1 so it'd still be a 2H bid with them.

(In other news, this past week I tried 2/1 with semiforcing NT for the first time. It was interesting. Had a hand in the Sunday swiss where I had KQxxxxx in hearts and a couple other face cards, but not quite a game force opposite a misfit. Started with 1NT over partner's 1S, and he had the 5-3-3-2 with AJx hearts. Great news: our diamonds were QJx-Txx, and ace, king, and a ruff meant the other table went down in 4H while I was in 1NT making 3. Plus five!)

Not good enough for 2H in a 2/1 GF system.
1NT all the way. If partner passes, I am not very happy, but I don´t think I will miss game often.

If partner bids 2NT, I´m bidding 3S and I will cue 4D over 4C, but if partner bids 4H I will be content with 4S, showing mild slam interest and a diamond cue.

Natural and invitational jumps are good to avoid this kind of problem, even if it worked out well this time.

ah well i guess the old man has to put his 2 cents in. how about just bidding 2 spades and then 4 if pard makes any move over that?

No, you're too strong for that. Partner with KT9xx Ax KJT xxx wouldn't even dream of moving over 2S, even though game is excellent.

In fact, he probably wouldn't even move with AK9xxx QJ xxxx A, and that hand usually takes 12 tricks on a club lead and almost always makes game.

Unless you don't like raising to 2S with 5-6 counts, this seems bad. Pard is going to pass way too often.

So one thing I heard this weekend is you are allowed to look at your convention card during the bidding...I always assumed you couldn't...

What you heard is incorrect.

Interesting. In the 1997 Laws, it was absolutely prohibited throughout the auction and play:

Under the 2007–08 Laws, sponsoring organizations (e.g., the ACBL) seem to be allowed to elect otherwise, and there's an exception (but only after the bidding is over):
The ACBL has made several elections with respect to Law 40, but none that permits consultation of one's own convention card.¹

Note that the change that the declaring side can look at its own card during the clarification period (that's after the final pass and before the opening lead is faced, when players can ask questions about the meanings of opps' calls) is a good one: It allows players to check to see whether they have failed to alert or have given an incorrect explanation, and helps ensure that they will (now) give correct explanations.


¹ One of the elections allows players to consult written defenses to opponents' "special" methods (in practice, midchart and superchart conventions) any time they could otherwise consult an opponent's convention card, but that's not consulting one's own convention card — the defenses are considered to be part of opps' cards.

yes you are probably right, but if i have a help-suit game try available i sometimes trust my partner to make it. this lets me pass with 5 counts. so when i raise 1s to 2 i usally have a reason for it.

This is a fine style, but it's far from standard these days. Even playing constructive raises, I think this hand is too good for even consideration of a simple raise, but especially at MP, and especially holding spades, I can understand.

Like most of you, I'd make my systemic 3-card limit raise, but I wouldn't be upset with partner for making a 2/1 at IMPs, especially since it may improve our strain.

I like underbidding from time to time, but not if the probability of it being passed out is big. 2S is a pretty huge underbid. You have a 3-card limit raise, at least.

If you pass with that hand over 1S-2S you need to improve your hand valuing skills. It is (much) closer to a 4S-bid than it is to a pass.

Congrats dcohio, and tough luck chuck.

The only time I qualified for Cs, we were 2nd out of 3, and top 2 qualified (split qualifier, the region sent 3 teams)

Yes, I was trying to come up quickly with a twelve-trick hand that wouldn't move over a simple raise. That one doesn't work, though; it's some sort of game try because a red suit fit could (and does) make game good. You're right; I have failed.

I really do need to stop making up quick example hands to illustrate points. Between the ~⅓ likelihood that I put in twelve or fourteen cards and the ~99% likelihood of getting not just the hand but my judgment and knowledge criticized by you, it just never feels worth it.

bump

Club game yesterday.

Partner opens 2NT (20-21)

I have

Axxx
AQJTxx
xx
x

2NT-3D
3H-4NT (1430)
5D-??

At this point, I realize I do not know if we are playing 5NT here as number of kings or specific kings.

Should I bid 6H, 7H, or something else?

*mumble mumble, first of all 4NT shouldn't be keycard there especially if you play Texas transfers mumble mumble and especially if you don't know what your followups are*

The next thing I say is going to, hopefully, change the way you make slam bids. Pay attention. It's going to sound harsh, but it's not really intended to be that way.

When you bid 4NT, if you didn't know already what you were going to do when partner bid 5D (or anything else for that matter), then 4NT was probably the wrong bid.

Here, you've decided WHEN YOU BID 4NT that what you needed to know was the number of keycards. Partner told you, and then you've decided that you have to guess. Really, the number of kings or specific kings wouldn't much help you either here. Let's generously say that you know you're playing "number of kings", and I tell you partner has two kings. Does he have

Qxx
Kxx
AKxx
AKJx

(where 7 is impossible, and 6 isn't a lock)

or

KQJ
Kxx
AKxx
Axx

(where you can claim 7NT at trick zero)?

You haven't the faintest idea. And that means that, if you're guessing after you know how many aces and how many kings partner has, that 4NT is a ****ty bid in the first place.

Write this down 50 times. "Blackwood is for keeping me out of bad slams where we have values but are off two aces. It is not for just expressing excitement that we both have good hands."


Now, if you're making me guess, right now, after I've taken over for the guy who bid 4NT then suffered a massive stroke, I'm going to guess to bid 6H. I know I have nine tricks (six hearts and three aces), and partner's got 9-10 points worth of goodies left. It's hard to see how those points will stretch into four SURE tricks. I won't be surprised to find out that 7H happens to make, or that 7NT is awesome. But most of the time partner's going to have say two kings, a queen and a jack to make up his 20 points (along with the K, A, A), and it's hard to see those cards making 7 of anything cold.

i think you should go back and bid 3 spades. when you bid 4nt you promise first or second round control of all suits. you dont have this. with a 3 spade bid you can get to the grand, small , or game depending on the diamond situation.

First off while DWetzel was a little blunt, he is 100% right. RKC may be the most overused/abused bid out there.

2NT-3C (puppet stayman)
(3D/3S/3NT)-4D (delayed texas, shows 4=6 majors)
4H-4S (shows spade control and slam values)

now partner should take over... he knows I only have 3 minor cards at this point, and after he keycards, he should know exactly how many tricks we have and where to place the contract.