Bridge - Page 17 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

I think I am going to take the diamond in hand, 2 spades, heart to the ace, pitch a diamond on the spade. Ace and one club. Ruff the diamond return, ruff a club (please tell me they split -- maybe you can still make it if they dont), and hope for the hearts to be 3-2.

If there's a better line here, I don't see it. Tough hand (that doesn't look that bad from a "losers" perspective, but looks like a disaster from a "winners" or "transportation" perspective).

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07-01-2008 , 07:54 PM

#402

Myrmidon7328

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyman

I would play this the exact same way, and just hope the clubs break.

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07-01-2008 , 08:23 PM

#403

chuckleslovakian

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 35,898

Yeah clubs don't break, and K of clubs is offside, but it still makes. I think it is just a bs make if I take an awful line. Lets say hypothetically, RHO threw in a bid of 2d after my partner opened 1c (they didnt in the actual hand, but could of stetched it). Now does this change things?

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07-01-2008 , 09:26 PM

#404

Siegmund

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,165

A small improvement on Wyman's line is small toward CQ rather than ace-first, which gains against the 4-2 breaks when East has the CK.

A WJO in diamonds however can make a BIG difference, because it means the diamonds break 6-1, and you can lose a trick to the person who is out of diamonds even before you've led the third spade. You might not have to burn the ace of hearts to get to your hand. (That is, you might be able to lose one club and then crossruff the hand, cashing SQ the first time you're in your hand, which you can't do if you play even one round of hearts.)

In all honesty, I'd still play the hand Wyman's way, since CK with the WJOer (which can set me if I don't use the HA to reach the SQ) is still quite likely.

Last edited by Siegmund; 07-01-2008 at 09:32 PM.

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07-01-2008 , 11:04 PM

#405

chuckleslovakian

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If you are looking for a fun time play in one of those ghoulash tournies at BBO. Here is the hand history to the one me and FCBL just played

http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands...21-1214962583-

Pick any hand to see a ridiculously abnormal distribution. Literally, any one of them! NT was never bid at any of our tables

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07-01-2008 , 11:10 PM

#406

FCBLComish

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 21,060

Who is lucky limo??

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07-02-2008 , 12:51 AM

#407

Myrmidon7328

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,133

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian

Goulash tournament? THAT SOUNDS INCREDIBLE

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07-04-2008 , 07:15 PM

#408

Myrmidon7328

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I'm sitting West, on board #1 (w/w).

K Q J T 7

A Q T 8 5 4

K

Two passes, and RHO opens 1

. How are you going to bid from here?

Spoiler:

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07-04-2008 , 07:28 PM

#409

Iron_Yuppie

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,545

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrmidon7328

I'm sitting West, on board #1 (w/w).

K Q J T 7

A Q T 8 5 4

K

Two passes, and RHO opens 1

. How are you going to bid from here?

Spoiler:

{Before spoiler}

2

(Michael's), then invite game if possible, bid game if not. There is a theory that Michael's should only be used for weak or strong 2 suiters (not intermediate ones, where you would just bid diamonds then hearts (or hearts then diamonds?)) but even if I was playing that, I wouldn't do so here.

{after spoiler}

Spoiler:

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07-05-2008 , 12:57 AM

#410

atakdog

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We're doing spoilers here, eh?

Spoiler:

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07-05-2008 , 03:19 AM

#411

Myrmidon7328

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Well, my partner held

Ax
A9xxx
x
xxxxx

which was basically a perfect fit for slam.

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07-05-2008 , 03:29 AM

#412

chuckleslovakian

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 35,898

Hand I played with FCBL. I swear this wasn't in a ghoulash tourney, though it damn well could of been

My hand...

AKJxxx

x

I open 1H, bidding goes 2C, 2S, 3C back to me. Now what...

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07-05-2008 , 03:54 AM

#413

Myrmidon7328

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My guess is 3D. You can't be that badly misfitting, so unless FCBL has a club stack or a very long spade suit, you should try and find a red suit fit. My guess is that FCBL is 6=2=2=3 or something, but in case he has a better diamond fit, you definitely need to show it. Although you're hand is a monster, I think bidding a simple 3D helps show your shape. Since you're coming back in at the 3-level, if probably shows 5+ diamonds. On the next round, rebid diamonds again, and you're showing the length/strength of your hand (I think if you bid diamonds again, it shows at least 6-5, although I may be mistaken).

Also, why not reverse on this hand?

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07-05-2008 , 05:12 AM

#414

chuckleslovakian

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Just a spoiler, FCBLs hand is 8 spades, 3 hearts, 2 diamonds...and this wasnt a ghoulash tourney...

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07-05-2008 , 12:59 PM

#415

atakdog

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I'd bid 5D at my second call. Or maybe 6D, depending on vulnerability and form of scoring. Opponent's club fit means you probably fit one of the red suits; partner's spade bid means you should be able to ruff out the other queen. In fact, the auction means he probably has almost exactly what he actually did have.

Even opposite something as ill-fitting as AKJTxxx x x Kxxx, slam is not completely doomed, as LHO will often be giving you a trick at trick one or two.

You want partner to bid slam with KQJTxx xx Qx Qxx, and I don't think it's ever going to be possible to convince him that that's a slam hand, so I think you need to bid it yourself. And if not, 5D is the least you can do.

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07-05-2008 , 01:04 PM

#416

atakdog

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian

Just a spoiler, FCBLs hand is 8 spades, 3 hearts, 2 diamonds...and this wasnt a ghoulash tourney...

Opponents had gone only as far as 3C while holding twelve trumps? Gawd, I should get back into bridge.

I think this is only possible when they are 8-4 or 9-3, which makes LHO something like 1=2=2=8. If you bid 5D at your second turn, he should probably go 6C, after which partner cannot fail to bid 6H, so you get there regardless.

I think you only get to the pretty good grand with some luck. Maybe if FCBL had AKxxxxxx Qxx xx - you get there after a forcing pass of 7C (depending on who bids it).

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07-05-2008 , 01:27 PM

#417

atakdog

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrmidon7328

One problem with 3D is that it does a poor job of convincing partner to shut the heck up about his irrelevant spades. Another is that it gives the opponents room to judge whether to sacrifice over what will probably be a nearly cold game, and may be an icy slam.

4D is possible, too, though I think it could lead to problems after partner bids 4S. Come to think of it, it's not a bad choice at all. If you play a jump-shift style wherein the bid absolutely denies spade interest it could work quite well; on this hand partner will respond 5C if he has room. (You would bid 5NT, obviously pick-a-slam, unless you are confident that a 5S bid won't be interpreted as tolerance; if you do risk 5S a grand may be biddable.) If there's a danger partner will take it as a splinter with spade support it's pretty bad, though...

The reason not to reverse is that your diamonds are not longer than your hearts. Partner will misjudge, and if he has something like AKxxxxx Qx x Kxx it could easily cost you a game or worse.

I have never seen a hand on which it was correct to reverse into a second suit that was as long as the first. Do not do this. Ever.

Incidentally, I have seen hands on which it is at least arguably correct to reverse into a three-card suit -- one crops up about every year in the Master Solver's Club, and I've done it at the table to good effect. (I also once got passed there in a tournament, to rather poor effect. FPS partnering FPS = bad -- one reason Zia does as well as he does is that his usual partners play straight down the middle.)

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07-05-2008 , 01:30 PM

#418

atakdog

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrmidon7328

Well, my partner held

Ax
A9xxx
x
xxxxx

which was basically a perfect fit for slam.

The only problem this hand has is that he can't be completely confident there isn't a spade loser, as the opps kind of backed into 4S. It's still really clear to bid over 5H, though, just not to drive to slam. It's a shame the auction never created a forcing pass situation; pass and pull would get you to slam for sure.

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07-05-2008 , 07:11 PM

#419

Myrmidon7328

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R/W in MPs. I'm in second seat.

RHO passes.

K J 7

A T 2

8 4 2

A Q 6 3

I open 1

, LHO overcalls 1

, and partner bids 1

. RHO supports to 2H, two passes, and partner bids 3

(?)

What does that sequence show? Is this bid forcing?

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07-05-2008 , 07:53 PM

#420

Iron_Yuppie

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,545

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrmidon7328

R/W in MPs. I'm in second seat.

RHO passes.

K J 7

A T 2

8 4 2

A Q 6 3

I open 1

, LHO overcalls 1

, and partner bids 1

. RHO supports to 2H, two passes, and partner bids 3

(?)

What does that sequence show? Is this bid forcing?

Well, assuming a double shows 4 spades, he should have 5+ for his one spade bid, and 3

should be a real suit, so I'm guessing 5-2-4-2 or 5-5 in the pointies. Should show game invitational strength; he could force to game with a 3

bid.

I don't think it's forcing, but I'm not passing with this hand. I'd like to bid 3

, but I fear that I have already denied having 3 spades, so I'm inclined to just jump to 4

. I would have bid 2

on the last round.

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07-05-2008 , 08:34 PM

#421

Myrmidon7328

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I thought of my p as at least 5-4 in the pointies, so I just bid 3S.

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07-05-2008 , 11:40 PM

#422

Wyman

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,027

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrmidon7328

R/W in MPs. I'm in second seat.

RHO passes.

K J 7

A T 2

8 4 2

A Q 6 3

I open 1

, LHO overcalls 1

, and partner bids 1

. RHO supports to 2H, two passes, and partner bids 3

(?)

What does that sequence show? Is this bid forcing?

He is showing at least 5-4, and his bid is forcing. I would have supported spades at my last call, but given this auction, I'm bidding 4S here, unless you have a prior agreement about what 3H would mean by you.

Oh crap, MPs. Ah, whatever, I'm still bidding 4S. I think it's right more often than not, and if he has a bigger hand than he's promised, he might make the wrong move over 3S by me.

Gah! This is why I would have made a 2S call over 2H. Then the ball's in partner's court.

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07-06-2008 , 02:48 AM

#423

Myrmidon7328

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,133

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyman

On a totally different string of thought: when is it right to support partner's trump suit with only 3 cards, after you open at the 1-level with a lower suit? I'm trying really hard to persuade myself that this is better than going to NT one level lower (especially at MPs).

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07-06-2008 , 05:09 AM

#424

bigpooch

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Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrmidon7328

In the auction where you opened 1

and LHO bid 1

, your
partner would make a takeout double to show precisely four
spades. When he bids 1

instead, this almost always means
he has 5 or more spades. Sure, your hand is a flat 3=3=3=4
fourteen count, but you've got aces in the side suits and two
honors in trump, which suggests that a spade contract should
be okay since you've found an eight card fit in a major.

Sometimes you would raise even if you didn't promise an
eight-card fit: e.g., you open 1

with

KJ7

AT2

AJ8632

Now LHO overcalls 1

, partner bids 1

(now he only
promises four), RHO raises to 2

and what's your call?
Probably almost everyone would raise to 2

here.

Also, it sometimes helps to have some conventions such as
support doubles and understandings of when one of you or
your partner may have been "pressured" into making a raise
when the auction has reached a high level.

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07-06-2008 , 05:14 AM

#425

fabadam

reading your numbers

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrmidon7328

From this comment I suspect you don't play that 1

promises 5 in this situation. In current standard bidding you would double with 4 spades, and bid 1

with 5.
So then you could support with 2

because there is a known 8-card fit.

NOTE: It's also possible to play that 1

shows 4 or more, and that double denies (!) 4 spades. I actually prefer to play it that way, close to the archetypical meaning of the negative double, because it makes hands with 8-11 HCP, no spades, easier to bid.

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