Do you believe that what he was posting was good strategy? If so, why did you never say anything to that effect when the consensus has been that his strategy was bad? Why do you give him a village lean for just discussing strategy?

Yes. It functions as a standard curve. Very few elites, very few useless, lots of solid players in the middle.


Yes, but there is no strategy that can be undertaken to mitigate the loss of good villagers.


Leaving fakepeeks doesn't do anything to prevent this. Sure, occasionally the village will get lucky and one of these "useless" players may get NK'd early. But they probably aren't as bad as poggers think they are if they are eating kills. The early kills are largely going to be eaten by the elites and all the good guys in the middle anyway.

shanks's posts:

Pays respect to soah, piles on to Homer (although puts it in a way that nobody else really had yet). I think this post was pretty much within gameflow. Not sure how I feel about the "/opener" bit at the end; it strikes me as a little forced.

At first I didn't like this post, because it seemed like an easy thing to say if someone was looking for things to say (plus it wasn't accurate, as I'm positive that I, at least, have played with shanks before). Looking at it again, though, I think it's a pretty good way to get people talking about themselves and encouraging interaction in a somewhat game-related way, so I don't have any problem with it.

This is the beginning of a sequence where shanks tries to point out (and later explain) a distinction between the wording of Supine's "I won't be posting much" post and soah's "I won't be posting much" post. I actually find the whole discussion kind of tiring to try and recap, but I post the rest of it below.

I like this post for its honesty, but it also lowers expectations.

helpful fluff

last sentence lowers expectations and makes me frown

I'm not a fan of shanks's response to chrja's cryptic post about Willi. While I (and others) stated that we didn't understand what chrja meant by his post and wanted him to clarify (which he hasn't done), shanks seems to know what chrja meant by voting Willi "for his lack of paranoia," and engages him on those terms. So either shanks understood what chrja was going for where I failed (which is possible), or shanks was just looking for a thinly supported post to take issue with and that reason ("Willi is new and seems unparanoid by nature") seemed as good as any. shanks, do you understand what chrja meant by "lack of paranoia" in his post? What did he mean?

See above. I'm still not sure I understand what shanks was going for here, but it's certainly possible that he saw a genuine distinction between the posts and had a legitimate point he wanted to make that got a bit lost in the telling. The gist seems to be that soah expanded on the fact that he wouldn't be posting much, while Supine just said he wouldn't be posting much and left it at that. shanks believes that soah's is a more villagery approach than Supine's. I can actually see that reasoning going either way (i.e., I could argue that Supine is more villagery b/c he didn't feel compelled to explain himself), and the throughline of shank's conclusion is lacking the clarity of thought that I'd like to see from a villager, and it sort of seems like he's developing it on the fly, but maybe (as he says himself) that's just shanks in either role.

Conclusion: slight wolf lean (mostly for the weirdness of the chrja/Willi thing), correcting as best as I can for shanks's apparent inherent wolfiness. As with chrja and Bremen, I'd like him to contribute substantially more.

First my apologies for dissappearing. I am feeling rather under the weather. Of course there are no sick days in WW so here I am :/

Too answer your question my last wolf game was the 5th? Anniversary game, however as I was a lost wolf in a multifaction game I basically played my villa game (I won if either wolf faction won, so getting converted wasn't optimal). For a more typical wolfgame from me look at Disney or the second newbie game run by Timelady earlier this year.

gadarene, when do you plan on voting? Same could be asked of Bremen, vyk07, and shanks.

are you fully caught up in the thread?

I appreciate the response.

Perhaps not, but I think your strategy demonstrably hastens the loss of good villagers, as there will be NO incentive for wolves to do anything other than strong player kill while hoping to hit the seer based on tone.

I agree that the wolves will prefer to nk stronger villas over weaker villas, all else being equal. But at the very least fakepeeks inject some element of agency into it on the part of the stronger villas (if a stronger villa happens to fakepeek incorrectly, then he/she goes waaaay down the list of nks until the wolves have been able to nab the seer), to say nothing of allowing other stronger villas to be seerhunt cleared, which (although there will always be the possibility of FPS) can be an extremely powerful weapon for the villa in clearing players -- look at the V.D. vanilla game from a while back if you want to see this in action.

We can talk about this more post-game, if you want to wait until then; I think it's an interesting discussion.

I voted chrja last page.

Mostly.

I still feel MrGatiso is >rand to be a wolf, and by extension Homer.

I like the tone from AKSpartan, and his reaction to CQ was entirely justified imo

Aksdal did some things I found villagery as well. The one that sticks in my mind is putting Banana on a wolf list, lol.

The strategy itself is meh. What's important is here is whether it was coming from a villagery or wolfy mindset and while others may have initially felt it was wolfy, I felt the opposite. I don't think wolf homer would be less likely to make that post because it doesn't achieve a whole bunch for the wolf team and may even make their job (of seerhunting) harder.

"I think wolf homer would be less likely..."

Any game mechanics posts I make are role neutral CQ, just as a heads up.

I feel like there a lot of wolves in Bremen/vyk07/Donk/Supine/UAW at the moment. Not sure who to vote but I gotta do it right now.

It doesn't look like any of them have a chance at getting lynched either.

Thinking about this more, I think the distribution along the curve can be very different from game to game given the subset of player population. McAvoy's recent reunion game, for example, is going to have a different distribution of elite/solid/less solid players than a random 17er like this game, and both might well be very different from a larger mishmash.

I don't know if this matters to my point, but I wanted to bring it up.

[vote: Bremen]

Then to be fair to myself Im not sure if I've ever seen you wolf.

g2g, out for day. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

viking village, vuroth modded vanilla, attack on the convention of awesomeness. won all 3(got carried hard by better players, i suck as a wolf), made it to f5 mustlynch in 2, was lynched as peeked anti-seer in AotCA. peace.

Gadarene's Early Revised and Updated List of Wolf and Villa Leans (Now With Far Too Many Categories!)

Strong villa lean
AKSpartan
Willi

Strong villa lean but it's soah
Soah

Slight villa lean
425kid
Bremen
Monkey Banana
MrGatito
Supine
UAW710
vyk07

No lean yet because it's cracked
crackedquads

Will be able to read him at some point but can never read on d1
DonkDonkDonkDonk

Wolfy but villa
Aksdal

Slight wolf lean
HomerNoonJr
shanks

Strong wolf lean
chrja

Gad I almost just asked you what "wolfy but villa" means

Gad whys Chrja a strong wolf lean? From afaik about him hes never shown a strong villager game and usually is utr to boot. So him doing something anti-villa, but which is completely in line with how he plays as a villager, shouldn't make him a strong wolf lean.

Let's put him on the "no one cares if he dies" list.

And my quick impression of shanks is that he looked better this game than he usually does. Maybe he's trying harder?

Given the other names I'm shocked chrja isn't on it

Probably should have quoted your vote of me so that I colpuld roll my eyes

And supine, 425 and monkey banana are the only ones from the slight villa list that I'd agree with. Maybe vyk too.