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10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread 10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread

11-08-2011 , 10:59 AM
nope, im cool with lynching either one. sun is just the more obnoxious wolf at the moment so im madder at him. but voting loretta is perfectly fine.

and im berating myself cuz im more than a little nervous. but then i went to sleep and im still ****ing tired, and i decided i don't really care. you'll probably win because you're way more experienced, and that's fine.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:02 AM
so yes sun, if you win, you somehow managed to trick everyone. and maybe you won't feel forced to quit WW after all.

also, loretta you should just give up. you're a lock wolf and need to die.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I'm not pointing this post out as evidence of wolfiness per se

I think anarchist does similar things as a villager and whether that's good or bad isn't important right now

what is worth noting is that I think the wolves crossed 27ai off their seerhunting list fairly early based on this kind of stuff, thinking his interactions with sanga were inconsistent with peeking him

this may have contributed to their inability to find him for so long
I noticed this and have thought about this as well. Anarchist as a wolf could have crossed 27a off his list. Or, the wolves (without Anarchist) could have made note of what Anarchist was saying and crossed 27a off the list on their own.

Another important point is whether 27a was still crossed off their lists on d4 before the flutter kill. He was crossed off my list (to a certain extent) given how many times he pushed his peek. Lets assume wolves thought 27a was unlikely to be the seer. The flutter kill could have been:

1) A legitimate seerhunt, this is only true if Anarchist is a villager.

2) A seerhunt of someone they believed to have flipped a peek, in this case Anarchist. I find this highly unlikely.

3) The wolves could have said omg who the eff is the other seer, we are lost, lets just kill a clear player and hope it FPS-es Anarchist clear. This scenario is particularly likely if they thought VM could have been the seer (since most players' had completely blown seer cover such sa myself).

It's important to keep in mind that if the wolves targeted 27a or VM and were wrong, then the game is basically over. So when I reread the thread, I'll keep a close eye on VM and see if the wolves might have thought he was seer.

Quote:
gj on this, I forgot about it
TY I'm reasonably proud of it. I actually had a pretty good d1, I found both Jim and Loretta wolfy and made some pretty decent cases on them. However, I never had the balls to really push them hard, although that's largely due to the fact that there were so many wolfy utr villagers in this game.

Quote:
it seemed wolfy of jim to focus on stupid points like this and ignore the villagery posts palo made

also, asking villagers for their opinions instead of just giving his own opinion is wolfy and I think it's a hallmark of jim's wolf game (and asking a lot of weird questions in general)
It's hindsight and it's moot since Jim is long gone, but I agree with your point. Villager Jim gets down to business and solves the game. Wolf Jim chats villagers up and pushes thin cases. But I hope Jim's not reading this because if he gets self-aware of his tells it will make it even harder to read him.

Quote:
kruze always seems like a wolf

I need to figure out how to read him
This was my first time playing with Kruze, but if this is how he plays as a villager then he needs to drastically change his game. His contributions this game have been saying "I'm a villager," sponging TL (a wolf), and mocking the importance of d1.

Quote:
tl tying villager palo to wolf loretta
Yes this spews Loretta wolf somewhat. Wolves usually don't go out of their way to build v/v links between two villagers, but they do for a villager and a wolf.

Quote:
connecting fluttershy and kruze in my mind

even if I didn't already think kruze was wolfy, I didn't see why she can have him as a villager at this point

it sounds like "too wolfy to be a wolf" to me
I thought fluttershy was suspicious for her hard defense of Kruze as well, because I didn't know how a villager could look at Kruze and say "now there's a villager that's worth defending." But I was wrong.

--------------

Keep this posting up Sun, it's helpful to see what you were thinking at every stage of the game.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
Why is Anarchist on your villa lean Jim?
a villager questioning wolf jim for an inexplicable villa lean on a wolf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I like this post

I was thinking we need to look at things like who had palo as wolfy and who palo had as wolves

sanga is pretty villagery anyway so clearing him from the nk doesn't give much up imo
palo was an obvious villager

jim wanted to lynch him

and he was night-killed

after jim said the seer should peek him

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
jim, why was palo the wolfiest player iyo?
another villager questioning jim for doing something shady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
kruze and flutter are both wolves
I thought I saw a wolfy triangle in jim, kruze and fluttershy

jim and kruze both fake-peeked flutter (and did it in a bad way)
flutter put both of them on her villager lists, for what I saw as superficial reasons

Quote:
Originally Posted by domer2
my last night's vote was ******ed. There is absolutely nothing I could've done to save crackedquads due to my late entrance, but my reasoning for voting for aksdale is completely ******ed and nonsensical now that I've completely read the thread. My read on 27a is the same, but I sense no coordination between 27a and aksdale.

alright so fair warning ahead....I haven't set up a spreadsheet yet because the template is absolutely garbage now due to my other game (my first game of ww)...3 ppl claimed seer on the same day, i was unprepared for that, and i have no clue what's going on and have to wait for who the wolves eat. So these notes are copy/pasta from notepad lol.

(needless to say, these are my thoughts from day 1 with the hindsight of knowing that crackedquads was eliminated but NOT KNOWING who was eaten at night)

JimHalpert - wolfy - weird entrance, weird first real post
27AllIn - wolfy - very active early, offeing little, claims to be unaware of rule he requested
loretta8 - wolfy - wolfy entrance, basically just summed up what other ppl posted, cozies up to 27allin at a time when there's a wagon on him, tries to dispel anarchist's posts with weak ****

Fluttershy - neutral, cautious - active early, offering little, hides behind her schtick, which while cute at first is going to become grating incredibly quickly
Well named - neutral - Well Named and JimHalpert are communicating a lot. Unlikely to be W/W communications like that this early, possibly clears one.
variance - neutral - the 3 votes in 3 posts is possibly wolfy. if variance is a wolf, at least one of his votes is a wolf.
TimeLady - neutral, cautious - got the same villa vibe as others are echoing at first, but careful not to get caught in a trap here. remember she changed D1, and at around 6pm, when wolves get nervous usually.

Palo - villa - strange post on seer hunting, but adding meat, other reasons for villa
Anarchist - villa
Sangaman - villa - adding meat to discussions.
donkdonkdonk - villa - adding meat to discussions.
Jinxy52 - villa entrance
TheNothing - confrontational villa lean, note: miscommunication between fluttershy and thenothing indicates they are not w/w
zsjostrom - villa entrance vibe
Kruze - lazy villa vibe

((((given that I now know who was eaten, Palo's read is confirmed for me, so gg to me, 1/1.))))

Further notes...

Fishy coordination:
JimHalpert/Loretta8 could be W/W
TimeLady/27A could be W/W

TL at post #200 changes the entire course of D1
Couple posts later she "immediately regrets it." Loose cover counter-train for 27A?
TL at post #226 tries to create a v/v connection between Palo and Loretta with very wolfy logic.
TL at post #259 indicates a possible flutter/TL W/W connection by claiming she will wagon fluttershy tomorrow but not today. wolfy as hell.
(Fluttershy at #282 says TimeLady is a friend after TimeLady just said she wanted fluttershy votes and will wagon her tomorrow!)

Here's the real whopper. Post #337 Time Lady says we will get good information from today's vote, seemingly trying to justify he vote she initially started with very little reasoning. What the f is she talking about? Cracked Quads barely posted, how are we supposed to discern good information from that day? Considering that CQ came back villa, I read this as her trying to soften the blow.

I have not read any of your posts today, but here is my day 1 newb player conclusion: we need a wagon on Time Lady today, for sure.

Time Lady
awesome post here:

- votes a wolf
- has palo as villagery (like everyone should have)
- has jim as a wolf
- sees jim/loretta as potentially w/w

the important thing is I wasn't the only one who thought jim was wolfy or that palo was an obvious villager

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
interesting

I think there was another tl post that seemed wolfy to me yesterday

gimme a sec
this has been discussed many times

it was her comment about the wolf list (liking it except for jim when jim was the only wolf on it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by domer2
tbh, this is wolfy to me. it reads like you are justifying your misfire.
another headshot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
note the "fluttlerwhatever"

patented w/w
this fit with the idea I had of jim, flutter and kruze being wolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
same tell here

"I don't know fluttershy, honest"
this too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Sun, it's kinda funny that I peeked you last night, but you're wrong about Jim being a wolf because I peeked him n0.
seriously, what villager leaves seer cover like this?

and the idea that he wouldn't fake-peek a wolf is just stupid

why wouldn't he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
jim was on palo the whole time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I haven't called jim a wolf afaik
I hadn't called jim a wolf yet, but it was obvious I suspected him by the way I was grouping him with kruze and flutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
did you explain why the w/w wagons were bad?
note that I ask people questions, this is what villagers do

try to determine people's roles by trying to understand their thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
yup, i thought me 27 and kruze were wagons when we werent

i thought kruze was villa from FS's defence
this answer was good enough for me

back to masony with aksdal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
domer seems pretty villagery to me
his reads looked pretty good and his thoughts looked real

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
those are some ****ty ass peeks if you're really a seer

and therefore they're ****ty ass fake-peeks if you're not
I guess it's possible but I don't think it's likely that I would call out a villager for fake-peeking me and another wolf

but as a villager, you can bet your ass I'm going to call someone out for leaving ****ty seer cover, especially peeking me (wolves love to fake-peek me) and my main wolf suspect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
analyze from the perspective of wolves saving kruze
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
unknowns role-playing my little pony are default male to you?
still questioning jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by domer2
You were a bit quick on the trigger with a not-that-strong SHC, and I'm just saying that it smells of a wolfy justification to me.

I'm a bit tunnel visioned on you right now, tho, and read your posts accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLady
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Palo nk. Just seems completely off the wall
wolves say stuff like this so often, it's just silly

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLady
I'm pulling out my Emo Anarchist = wolf and Annoying Anarchist = villager card here to say that Anarchist is probably a villager.
wolf timelady clearing wolf anarchist while calling him annoying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
I'd love to know exactly what I've done that's "annoying" this game. Cite some examples perhaps?

Also, I know variance owed his absence to the weather, but I'm also starting to get the feeling this is his UTR game.

Sun tzu is confident kruze/flutters are wolves and since sun is lock villa I might go with him today. I want to see how variance responds first.

varianceminefield
anarchist still hasn't explained why fake-peeking me would be a good reason to sponge me

but the reason is obvious: they were both villagers so he'd love for them to get lynched and for me to get blamed for it

but if he wants to pretend he's a villager, he's going to have to make up some reason a villager would do that

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
I don't understand all the consternation about the palo kill. He was an obvious villager and he left a clever peek

high five palo
qft

palo was an obvious villager and jim was an obvious villager for pushing him

the fact that palo got night-killed after jim called for him to be peeked is lolsauce gravy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretta8
Complete works of VM













he aggressively enters the thread, seems to think most of the thread is howling, and then vanishes. he also says his internet is shaky which could explain his disappearance.

I think its difficult to get a strong read on VM just from this, I'm inclined to lean slightly village though since a wolf probably doesn't make themselves the center of attention like that. I'm surprised anyone wants to lynch him for this tbh, seems thin.
this is loretta's whole wolf game: calling villagers villagers for little or no reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
VM is my peek for today. If you really think his absence means he's a wolf I'll vote for him.

I think Kruze is either a bad villager or a bad wolf, I don't have enough playing history with him to know which one. I would lean towards villager because when you're wolf you have complete information and it's easy to play smart and pretend to be not-so-smart in a couple areas, but playing villager is difficult and Kruze has stated this. He also said he doesn't have any power roll, I don't know if a wolf would want to say this because it might increase the chance he gets lynched.
seer making his peeks obvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
I read palo like a boss
villagery of WN

palo was an obvious villager and the people who pushed him were suspect

also, TL was wolfy for pretending to be baffled by the nk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
some more evidence that I wasn't aware of wagons if you're still hung up on that. also fwiw, when I make a d1 soul read wolf dream team list I'll typically put 3 or 4 of my wolfiest players on it and 1 or 2 UTR extra souly read soul reads

that said, making lists is mad fun so ima do one with everyone from villageriness to wolfiness w/ spaces for emphasis

V -> W
Aksdal
well named
sangaman
domer2
27AllIn
Anarchist
zsjostrom35


Sun Tzu
TimeLady
Jinxy52
TheNothing
Loretta8


Noah

Fluttershy
KruZe
Master3004
VarianceMinefield
DonkDonkDonkDonk
JimHalpert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
viller peek

diLDO
seer making his peeks obvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Well named I asked you on day 1 but I'm increasingly curious now -- is this your wolf game or your "I don't care all that much" villager game? Because killing you today if you're a villager would be awful.
what is this?

is it supposed to look like wolf-hunting?

what kind of information could you possibly get from this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
Another thought just popped into my head: Jim must know that he's a likely candidate to get peeked on the first or second day so he could very well tell his wolf mates to make a comment about how he looks wolfy in case he did get peeked.

I think the only players that suspected Jim were myself, aksdal and sanga though.
add me and domer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretta8
donk's clearly a villager

same with sun tzu
again, loretta's wolf game is calling villagers villagers for little or no reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I did

in fact I want to lynch the people who wanted to lynch him

this includes jim
pushing jim from the beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
obvious villagers
sangaman
domer

likely villagers
Aksdal
Loretta
well named
zsjostrom
27AllIn

possible wolves
Anarchist
TimeLady
Jinxy
TheNothing
Noah
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Master3004

likely wolves
Fluttershy
KruZe
VarianceMinefield
JimHalpert
this was day 2, the first day I played

so tell me again that I didn't have anarchist as wolfy all game

suck it, bitches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
This list. It seems so familiar
aksdal had a couple roles from the mod

I have good reads

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
I hate just about everything about this post

- calling sanga wolfy is definitely wrong and given Jim's village game I would think he would be naturally inclined to find sanga's style villagery

- lol I'm going to vote at random! is wolfy

- voting palo for being a suspicious paranoid villager is bad and I think jim is better than that

I see there's a lot of mild JimHalpert suspicion in the thread, multiple people have already mentioned him as a suspect. I think it's time to formalize that in a wagon

JimHalpert
WN votes jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
JimHalpert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
JimWolfpert
and 2 villagers jump right on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluttershy


So...I see some of you might want to ask JimHalpert to leave...I...I don't think that's a very good idea. I think JimHalpert is as mousey as they come!

I could almost quote any post and explain why they are mouse-like but here are just a small sample of his most recent ones.




A very good (and first) read on domer's villager entrance. So far, it doesn't seem that anybody has disagreed with this.



A good read on Anarchist being villager and Loretta perhaps being a wolf based on sound logic.



A night kill that is explained from the perspective of somebody that likely did not do the night kill. There's so much reasoning in this that I am fairly sure JimHalpert took no part of the sneaky night events!



JimHalpert is helping us all by letting us know his reasoning behind his Anarchist villager read. I know it has helped me at least since I initially thought Anarchist could be a sneaky rat!



JimHalpert is admitting to wanting to lynch the person who was nightkilled, and also provided a lot of reasoning for why he thought the person nightkilled was weird. This comes from a mouse!


So that's why I think JimHalpert is a mouse! And I defend my friends!



Too loud?
flutter calling jim a villager and earning wolf points from me (and aksdal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Lol sun tzu if I hadn't peeked you villager I would think you're a wolf. You're trying to get my other peek lynched. Also you clearly have some sort of agenda putting me on a "possible ewolf" lis. I mean how can you vote with well named here who's ~40% to be a wolf? It looks clearly like someone is trying to derail a variance wagon here. He STILL hasn't posted. Wtf?
again, with the horribad "seer cover"

and didn't he just say I as was a clear villager?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Basically, in a word, the jimhalpert votes are terrible.
votes for the howling wolf are horrible

why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
And 27allin trying to push this back on me is laughably wolfy. You have openly contradicted yourself and refused to clear villagers, only calling people who disagree with you "wolfy." The concencus clearest villager, sangaman, also picked up on what you're doing. Sun tzu didn't post at all yesterday and based on his posting today I'm actually baffled he's a villager.
based on what exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsjostrom35
I just went and reread Jim's D1 from the VD game a couple months back, and I'm not seeing the case on him here. In that game, he just seemed to float along with the thread, asking questions but never seeming to draw any conclusions from the answers he got, and concentrated on having good tone (which he did very well). There's a little of that here, but he has given out some concrete leans. And then there's his case on Palo, which reminded me quite a bit of his push of me in the recent NBA game and (again) bears no resemblance to his VD game (he literally did not make a single case on anyone the first day there). I will not be voting Jim in the near future.

I'll do some more rereading and see if I like any of the other wagons better.
zsjostrom, soft-defending jim in classic w/w fashion "I'm not seeing the case" and earning wolf points from me, especially after jim is outed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
stuff about Jim


Interprets the kill as an obv sanga = villa peek SHK



First of all, it gave me the creeps when he was talking about villagers as NKs and mislynches because that's how I think when I'm a wolf. He rationalizes why he says it below, but I still think its pretty creepy.





So wrt to the red, he admits that after thinking about it, the Palo kill was most likely a tone kill, which I also agree is probably true because of how much Palo was talking about seers and how he flipped out about anarchist. I think it's fairly likely that whoever was responsible for that Palo tonekill noticed the seery tone before EOD. Most of Palos posts yesterday were early in the day, so either the tone read was picked up then, or during reread at night. Put this together with the fact that Jim is definitely capable of coming up with that tone read, and the fact that Jim was the main proponent of getting Palo lynched yesterday, and I think it makes him look really bad.
solid case against jim

also potentially a peek at this point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Sanga,

I'm not exactly sure what to tell you. I guess I interpreted loretta and donk's posts as more villagery and well named's more wolfy than you have.
anarchist follows this pattern throughout the game

he just calls a villager wolfy without providing any reasoning at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
Ok, time.

I'm being wagoned and am in the lead at the time of this post. I'm trying to think how wolves would react to it, and I think there's two options:

1. Pile on and help get me mislynched
2. Pop in and defend me to look good


Now, as after those 3 in a row a flurry didn't happen, I'm going to lean #2.


So which was wolfiest?


This one:




Zsj pops in out of nowhere and defends me hard. The main point that concerns me: my case on palo reminded him of my case on him in NBA. THIS IS FALSE. False. False. My case on him in NBA involved me thinking he was a wolf trying to suck up to three of the better vilalgers in the game and giving us villager leans early. My case on Palo was NOT tinfoil. It was NOT out of nowhere. It was a concrete thought process about being avoided.



Then he goes after well named:






I've already explained why I think Well Named is a villager now. This case seems disingenuous to me. It's the ONE target that's on me that's easily mislynchable "zomg didn't post a ton normally day 1, he was weird!". He's picking on liking the 25% thing from Palo? You find him wolfy for that?



If wolves are trying to gain credit by defending me, Zsj is the one I think is a wolf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
Zsj
jim calls zsjostrom out for clearing him lightly

this is weird and looked villagery of jim to me unless zsjostrom is a wolf with him

the wolves are aware of aksdal's peek (or fake-peek) of jim and this is their idea of spewing zsjostrom as a villa

so at this point I'm thinking jim, anarchist and zsjostrom are all wolfy
my only reservation is the possibility of anarchist actually being a seer
obviously I'm aware he's claiming to have peeked me (and I'm not happy about it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Jimmy, I do not think zsjo's case was bogus. Just because someone calls you a wolk does not make them one.
and this here is a clear slip

it's obvious that anarchist wasn't even reading the conversation between jim and zsjostrom

this is damning imo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Aksdal I don't understand how you haven't noticed well named's wolfiness.
what is there to notice?

explain what you thought was wolfy

and don't say it doesn't matter because we know now that WN was a villager

it does matter because you need to explain what you were thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
How did you have a villager lean on master yesterday? He had two posts.
more of this silly w/w fake spew game

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsjostrom35
Jim, when you put on the you're only supposed to wear it as a hat, not wrap your entire brain in it <_<. This makes even that NBA case look good.

Ok:



Or, you know, 3. Ignore it until later in the day to get a better feel for how it's going. You're a strong villager (I still think you're a villager here), and I think that would make it dangerous for wolves to take a strong stance on your role. If they try and fail to get you mislynched it looks pretty bad for them, but they can't afford to pass up a chance to get rid of you (as you've said in the past, you've never yet been mislynched).

I know I told you in that NBA game that I'd feel fairly comfortable defending villagers as a wolf, but that doesn't mean I'd defend ALL the villagers, and you're definitely one where it would be a terrible mistake to miss out on a potential mislynch.



Your case on me in the NBA game involved pushing me for one thing I did that was wolfy under a certain interpretation, while ignoring the fact that there was no reason I couldn't have done it as a villager, not to mention that I was fairly villagery otherwise. Your case on Palo involved pushing him for one thing he did (or more precisely in this case, didn't do) that wolves sometimes do while ignoring the fact that villagers don't always pay attention to everything and that Palo had been somewhat villagery otherwise.

Do you see how I MIGHT have seen some similarities here?



1) I had a wolf lean on well named yesterday
2) There was plenty I didn't like about his posting other than the 25% thing. Sanga expressed a lot of it; I added a few other things that stuck out to me.
3) You're STILL failing to take into account that my play makes more sense when I'm a villager. I reviewed the lead wagons and expressed my opinions on them; I think you're a villager and that well named is a likely wolf (and well named being on you is consistent with both of these). How on earth does that necessitate this ridiculous scenario wherein I'm a wolf hard-defending a valuable mislynch and attacking another player who's trying to get you lynched?



In short: nope. Jim, you really need to stop grasping at why people could possibly be wolves and start concentrating on why they're probably wolves or why they're probably villagers. If I hadn't seen you do this before as a villager (and fail to do it as a wolf) I'd think you were incredibly wolfy for it.
blah blah blah

so obviously w/w

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
I have to get going to a concert soon. I don't like a VM lynch because he is my peek. I'm going to sponge you, Sanga, on anyone else since you were my first peek and I think you're a villager.
seer making his peeks obvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
fluttershy in the skyyyyyy

we can fly twice as highhhhhh
aksdal also thought fluttershy was wolfy

and probably for the same reasons I did (clearing wolves)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
kruze

1 post left after this

kruze/vmf/flutter/JH are ideal wagons

master is ok too, but hes mad wolfy as **** be default so I'd rather hold off there.

donk is coming around, I like his villa list

donk vote one of those 4 ppl for great success
Quote:
Originally Posted by MewsicLovr
Votes as of post 699
Night in 00:11

---
VotesLynchVoters
7 KruZe Aksdal (34), Anarchist (26), domer2 (20), DonkDonkDonkDonk (14), Master3004 (14), sangaman (31), well named (28)
6 Master3004 27AllIn (25), Fluttershy (22), KruZe (5), Loretta8 (9), zsjostrom35 (8), shanks (10)
1 Aksdal VarianceMinefield (1)
1 Fluttershy Jinxy52 (13)
1 JimHalpert Sun Tzu (32)
1 VarianceMinefield TimeLady (16)
1 zsjostrom35 JimHalpert (33)
1 not voting TheNothing (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
kruze

I only have 2 more posts after this so I hope there are no eod shenanigans

people should not be voting VM

the master wagon looks shady to me too
note I wasn't pushing kruze

I pushed jim all day and only switched to kruze toward the end when the wagons were master/kruze

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
So this is Donk's d1











no discernible peeks as far as I can tell.

Then for d2



vmf SHC villa?

I think I could argue im SHC too if wolves thought he left 2 peeks yesterday, but I think Donk sponging me wasn't peekish

another day, another new villager to add to my circle of trust.

welcome, miss fluttershy
a seer, making his peeks obvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
then anarchist goes after a easy mislynch on a real thin read. continues to go with my anarchist wolf lean
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
i like how allin responsed to anarchists vote and sanggas opening. i see his thought process.

village
sanga
allin

wolves
anarchist
aksdal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Lol variance quoting stuff from day1. You are the wqolfiest player ITT by far.
anarchist calling a villager wolfy for little or no reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Wolf lean on palo? Hahahahahaha

variance
again

note there is no wolf-hunting or even pretending

just attacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Dude you self voted yesterday after not reading and then come into today and give a wolf lean to a dead player. This shows you did even read the thread last night.

You're a wolf.
more of the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Domer seriously vote variance with me. He's a wolf or a tilty villager who isn't even reading or pretending to.
why would domer want to vote a tilty villager for not reading the thread closely?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
here is anaechist using his confident wolf tunneling tone.

you are a wolf

you are a wolf

trying to jump on anything small





again jumping on something small. thinking about something that wolves would be thining of more then villagers. about how wolves have perfect information. allin does play wolfy day one too and i think anarchist knows this




villa lean for fluttershy

she thinks that anarchist is wolfy

and sanga is villa


so

village
sanga
allin
fluttershy

wolves
anarchist

maybe aksdal, i havent gotten to donks posts yet
I haven't experienced anarchist's wolf game before this game but apparently VM has

he points out exactly what anarchist has been doing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
OK I haven't been night killed yet? Does that mean my peeks are more likely to be accurate?
lol @ the wolves if posts like this threw them off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
You're a wolf or really bad 27.

Variances argument that my voting for him is wolfy is particular insulting.

He hasn't posted at all this game other than to yell at the people voting him when he wasn't even a wagon, then tilt self vote.

Then he goes back to day1 and asks us our opinion of a dead player, then makea his entire argument of who's wolfy based on the idiotic premise that not only is he a village, but that everyone should know he's a villager. This is basically hilarious because variance hasn't done anything villagery all game, but in fact has done a bunch of wolfy things.
calling another villager a wolf or very bad

for no good reason

anyone see a pattern yet?

congratulations, your IQ is at least 65

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
WHat the **** is this ****?

there are more than 3 wolves anyway bro

i feel confident in saying now that variance and 27 ARE wolves. 27 sponging variance's unbelievably poor argument is terribly wolfy.
didn't anarchist call me out for calling people wolves?

what is he doing here?

and what did I actually do?

I made a post saying flutter and kruze were wolves

then I latched onto jim (an actual wolf zomg!) and pushed him until he got lynched

and you can't say it was only after it was clear he had been peeked

I was on him from the beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
FAKE OUTRAGE IS WOLFY

youve made no case on me, just continually call me wolfy.

u havent answer any of my questions

both me and allin are shwoing villagery thought process. you just continually say


YOU ARE WOLFY, HE IS WOLFY

anarvhist is lock wolf here. another great thing about resolving anarchist is he spews an insane amount
VM seems to know exactly what anarchist's wolf game looks like

someone should probably look into that if they're not sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
oh my god you're outed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
variance, you didn't even remember you just called aksdal a wolf. so because of ONE post he went from "wolf" to "villa lean?"

just give up bro
jumping on irrelevant details

no wolf-hunting

no questioning

just "you're a wolf"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
no, he isn't. this is exactly what he does as a wolf. he comes into the thread and reads the very old posts and makes obscure comments about them.
is that what he does as a wolf?

I don't know but someone could probably look into that

I'd be willing to bet that it isn't

and that villager anarchist would not be all over VM like this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Add "forget what leans I gave people" to Variance's list of wolfy transgressions.
sure thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
So you only have 2 peeks?

And you peeked a consensus near lock villa?

I am so not buying this at all.

VarianceMinefield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
This isn't my tunneling game. I listed about 5 different incredibly wolfy things you did. Just for your self vote alone you should be killed. And if you want to talk about fake rage, just look at yesterday and your fake rage at end of day. There is no hiding now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
The thing is in the 20ish% of the time you're a villager here, I can't possibly listen to you anyway. You've called me a lock wolf (which is wrong) and ironically have reverse-tunneled yourself. For some reason you can't even consider the possibility that someone would think you're a wolf, despite the numerous wolfy things you've done.

So no, I did not peek you, but yes, I think you are a wolf, and what the f that you can't grasp that. Lashing out instead of actually villaging is pretty sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
it looked like u were just insulting me, not asking me anything.


what were ur questions again?

if itabout reading the thread.

i plan to read the rest later. want to have posts to use to analyze them. so might wait till tomorrow.

i want to save some to interact tonight.


ask me questions though, i might wait till more posts are in thread so i can conserve posts.
villagery response (to me)

note I'm not just attacking him

I ask questions

I want to understand his thought processes to figure out his role

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
what was villagery about that aksdal post?

how am I wolfy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
anyone who thinks I'm wolfy in this game is amazingly bad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
actually, forget it for now

go read the thread and then you can take it back and admit to being ******ed and we can move on
I want VM to read the whole thread before I try to read him

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Yeah I peeked sun because he didn't ****ing post at ALL on day1, so i figured he wouldn't get NKed anyway, but i realize now it's a ******ed peek because he's pretty obviously a villager anyway.
"pretty obviously a villager anyway"

until I push wolves and argue against his wolfy agenda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
maybe it was this

idk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
those don't look like peeks to me, fluttershy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluttershy
I like that Sun Tzu.

I think then, that Donk was killed for Loretta & Aksdal being mouseys. Aksdal's "peek" was pretty clear too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sangaman
Your story that you were rereading d1 EOD checks out, but then you also were interacting with Anarchist who was posting around the same time I was. It's not unreasonable that you'd miss my post (basically everyone who was posting around then did: Aksdal, Anarchist, Fluttershy, Kruze...) even if you're a villager though. Maybe I should've thrown in a lolcat post too to grab people's attention.

I meant what I said about POE, though. If you're a villager and shanks is a villager, then who are the wolves? I'm holding you to somewhat of a high standard because you're an experienced player and I've seen you be really villagery in VD.

--------

Anyway, I currently believe VM is the best lynch today but for now I will vote

Fluttershy

Because I think she may be evil:

a villager voting fluttershy

do I get on that?

no

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
VarianceMinefield

because apparently I'm going to spread my thoughts out and waste a bunch of posts today. In my defense I got like 2 hours of sleep :P
a villager voting VM, another easy wagon for me (I was on it at this time)

pay attention to how the day develops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
OH MY GOD I AM GOING TO GO ON INSANE MONKEY TILT, HOW IS VARIANCE AVOIDING BEING LYNCHED AGAIN. STOP VOTING FLUTTERS, STOP SELF-VOTING, STOP VOTING FOR OBAMA, STOP VOTING FOR YOUR COUSIN.
he's going to go on insane monkey tilt if a villager doesn't get lynched

a villager that I don't think villager anarchist would think was a wolf

note jim was being discussed as a wagon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield
VarianceMinefield

did anyone read the posts between us this morning? anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
I think you should at least be able to see where I'm coming from. Your response seems like you think I'm more likely FOS than mistaken.



I believe you, which is prob pretty exploitable, but oh well. Also you pushing Jim makes me want to v-lean you. Can you vote for him? I'd be interested to see who tries to save him and who will bus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Aksdal,

Jim Halpert is a villager. Let me help you here:

n0-JimHalpert
n1-Sun Tzu
n2-master

of course, if i'm not seer, he could be anything. but i am seer so he's a villager. or am i?
this is garbage

making a "soft" seer-claim to protect a wolf

does it look like seer cover?

not at all

it's only purpose is to protect jim

at this point, I'm thinking if anarchist isn't a seer, he needs to die

guess what

he's not a seer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
you don't get to soft-claim as part of an argument

if you want to claim seer, go for it, but you're getting lynched if you're not a seer

and if you're really a seer, I don't see any reason to add that last part
I call him out for it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
of course it's an argument.

i'm seer here X% of the time, and when I am, Jim is a villager. Using bayes' theorem, Jim's chance of being a villager goes up just like if he made villagery posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
idgaf about your if I'm seer bull****
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
uhhh what of course i know bayes theorem what kind of question is that

also if im seer, and im alive tomorrow, i will hard-claim. happy sun tzu?

today just take it fwiw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I think if you apply it all properly, he's more likely to be a wolf since you are a wolf here more often than you're seer
qfmft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
which applies to everyone else

in any case, your bayes theorem argument has been refuted
ok so the theory is what?

wolf Sun wanted to smash villager anarchist's defense of jim for what?

villager cred?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
At this point I think that Master is also too terrible to be a wolf. (Same read I had on kruze which is why I didn't voted for Master instead). I'm fine with a Jim vote, aksdal. (I'm on post 868 as I type this and I might change my mind in the future). But for now:
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
also, if you are a seer, the wolves are pretty ******ed to not have killed you by now

and I wouldn't be surprised at all if you're a wolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
Updated power rankings:

Anarchist
JimHalpert
Sun Tzu
master3004
sangaman
domer2
Loretta8
zsjostrom35
Jinxy52
shanks
aksdal
TimeLady
27allin
well named
Fluttershy
Variance Minefield

Not sure exactly where the people in the middle go, but that's about right.

Flutters shooting waaaaaaay down for still being cryptic and vague.

I only have a few posts left so I will save them for end of day. Cya later.
wait, didn't anarchist call me out for calling flutter a wolf?

but he put flutter down at the bottom

with a bunch of other villagers that it would make no sense for him to believe are wolves

or if he had reasons for it, he never posted them

and I wasn't pushing flutter at this point

I was hot on the trail of the real wolves, jim -> zsjostrom -> anarchist

tell me again I've played badly

suck it bitches

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
zsj making another long, thin case on jinxy and just dropping the well named one when it wasn't gonna go yesterday (and not continuing with it today) wolfy.

Zsj
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
It's almost like the dumb seer cover that dominates turbos (but in turbos it's at least fun) has seeped into slow games
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
Village
fluttershy
domer
aksdal
shanks
allin
sanga

neutral
jimhalpert
timelady
sun tzu
jinxy
master
zjs

wolves
loretta
well named
anarchist

if i get lynched tonight, all i ask is u kill anarchist.

he has been howling alllllll day
true

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I think anarchist is wolfy

I wish the seers would just claim so we can sort this mess out
like I said, if anarchist isn't a seer (and if jim is a wolf he obviously isn't), anarchist needs to die

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLady
So we lynch outside the claim?
so we lynch a villager?

wolf wants to lynch outside the claim (other wagons are VM and jinxy)

the wolves realize jim is peeked but want to squeeze in a free mislynch

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLady
I gotta catch up on vote counts in the other games, and the hot water turns off before midnight so I need to have a shower as well, so if someone *cough* sangaman could tell me whether to move my vote from jim or not that'd be swell
"idk what to do" let's ask sanga

note anarchist said the same thing (that he wanted to know what sanga and I thought) but when I said there was no reason to lynch outside the claim, he spazzed out did something completely different from what he had said

in other words, he was lying when he said that and he was just hoping we would both say to not lynch jim

this is damning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
I'm using my last post today to say I'm not sure if we should lynch outside the claim today? I'm inclined to do whatever sanga or sun want since they're good and clear in my book.

at this point im not going to switch to jim because i ****ing want variance dead, and also i dont want to break seer cover here. if im seer jim is still a villager. if im not seer and the consensus is to lynch him, i will vote him by end of day.

so yeah this is my last post for today, also i agree with well named about the not pushing reads as a peek thing, yet i still think well named is wolfy for other reasons, but i wouldn't claim to peek him if i didn't. domer if u actually did peek him wolf, you're playing it very well fwiw.

anyway no more anarchist posts til tomorrow unless i have to switch my vote, and assuming i don't get NKed.
here's the post I was talking about

I think I have it out of order in my multiquote and it was before timelady's similar post

in any case, my point is valid

he said one thing and then did something else when it didn't go the way he wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aksdal
no **** wolf

I'm pretty sure the wolves knew I was seer at LEAST after n1, possibly some of d1. If I had to guess though, I'd say he didnt catch my thread alteration until after EOD on d1. So when you reread Jim, keep in mind that his agenda has been to spew his teammates villa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
Makes complete sense for aksdal to be seer here. He said he was suspicious of Jim since day 1, and I also had the feeling Jim was a wolf.
27 feels the same way I did: the claim is obviously legit and jim was wolfy anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
This is too good. I think I'm going to just lynch in the claim. It's exploitable but it gains tempo

And the thought process around suspecting sangaman, that's just so hard to fake as a wolf, and the timing and delivery in response to sanga's post is also extremely villagery because it's in the flow of the thread rather than being a pre-cooked bit of the claim or anything

JimHalpert

I'm out in 5 minutes blah blah blah
WN, another villager fells the claim is legit and it's a good idea to just lynch the obvious wolf

and it was the right thing to do

I'm not being results oriented

like I've said many times already, you lynch outside the claims when:
- there are competing claims
- there is a problem with the claim
- the claimant was in danger of getting lynched

none of those conditions were true

the odds of aksdal being a wolf there are negligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
Chances that Aksdal claims seer out of nowhere after fake claiming seer last game is 0.
exacltly

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
Meh, I really hate this cause it forces me to claim.


***CLAIM***

I'm a vanillager






Why claim? Because I thought Aksdal could have been trying to gauge my response on being a seer since wolves have whiffed twice already. I felt like I was one of a select few that could be seer in his opinion, and wanted them to have a decision to make tonight.

But if we're not lynching outside the claim then there's no reason for that.

So I'm a vanillager. Aksdal is a wolf. He'll be killed tomorrow if we lynch me today. We only have 2 mislynches left though, and I don't want to be one of them.

But I think there's no chance I ever outlive Aksdal here barring a seer claiming. Also, theres no chance to accidently lynch a seer in the crossfire if we kill me.





So what I'm saying:

Lynch me.
Lynch Aksdal tomorrow.
Run good.



Jim
and jim votes himself

would he do that as a villager?

I hope not

I really don't think he would

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsjostrom35
I agree with lynching outside the claim; I'm inclined to believe Aksdal, but as I learned in the NBA game there can be serious downsides to letting a wolf claim a free mislynch. Leaving my vote on Jinxy.
oh hey

a wolf wants to lynch outside the claim

they really want this mislynch

Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
my thoughts are i believe aksdal completely and just wanna lynch jimhalpert

jim will change his vote to me when the time is right, so make sure there is seperation there.
a villager wants to just lynch the obvious wolf

anyone notice a pattern yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
I talked about Jim sounding wolfy and I also thought aksdal was a wolf- I think this was because he's actually a seer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
jim

I've thought he was wolfy all game

also, I don't think there's any chance villager jim would self-vote here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
oh my god im pretty sure im going over my post limit to post this but i just have to:

all of my wolfiest players want to lynch inside the claim

chips just told me after the true blood game you never ever ever lynch inside the claim ever.

well named just asked people what to do, then voted inside the claim. what the f? why even ask for permission then?

we should lynch outside the claim here in case aksdal is lying. it's very clear cut. the wolves will resolve the claim for us. the fact that well named is voting jim only proves my point even more.
all of those players were villagers

coincidence?


this has to be a lie. There's no way chips said that

it is very clear cut

you lynch the wolf

every time

and the fact that villager well named voted jim supports my point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
we could cfd anarchist
is this a villager wanting to cfd a wolf for defending a wolf or is it a wolf wanting to cfd a villager for defending a wolf?

one makes sense

one doesn't

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
i am going to hardclaim vanillager just so i can say i didn't peek you and point out how wolfy you're being.
the same pattern

calling a villager wolfy but without giving any reasoning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
HOW THE HELL IS VARIANCEWOLFIELD surviving again. this is putting me on tilt. i just came off a villager game with really good reads (other than that stupid sooted thing) and someone NO ONE lynched 27allin who was a wolf and he went on to win

now somehow variance will get off again and again and again and again what the ****
the wolves really wanted this mislynch

VM was on their list of mislynches and anarchist was tilting at it slipping away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
if you think I'm wolfy for some reason, you should point it out

let's hear it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
level? what if aksdal is a wolf and jim is a villager?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
you said to cfd me. you are wolfy.

anyway now im really over on posts

if you lynch inside the claim you are probably a wolf, plain and simple
if you lynch the wolf, you are probably a wolf

so lynch one of the villager wagons instead

say what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
how am I wolfy?

"you are wolfy" isn't an argument or a case

it's just an unsupported and false assertion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
we have a seer claim

it's probably real

it might not be

jim didnt lolcat

you want to cfd me??? oh my god i'm so rarely a villager i will be so ****ing mad if i dont get to play out the rest of this game. what the hell are you doing and why are you SO RESISTANT to killing variance minefield
I was pushing him earlier

but I wasn't sure he was a wolf

I was sure jim was

ok, now imagine I was a wolf

how easy would it be to just go along with the outside the claim thing?

why would I fight it so hard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
Also if the wolves were going to send out someone to hard claim seer they'd probably sacrifice a more wolfy player, like shanks or jynx. (if one of them is wolf)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
this is EXACTLY my point.

you've "wanted" to lynch variance, but now that we have a seer claim you go out of your way to abandon your variance vote and go inside the claim?

that is exceptionally wolfy
calling a villager wolfy for wanting to lynch a wolf over a villager

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
aren't you over your post count? I've seen at least 1 game where seer never left any peeks and just claimed seer about halfway through the game. I'm giving you wolf points for this comment because you should know some seers do this.
qft

there is literally no reason for villager anarchist to react this way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
whatever i made my point and im done for today, anyone who votes inside the claim warrants heavy skepticism from me, it's a terrible play and good players should know that.
this is completely false

good players know the correct move here is to lynch the peeked wolf

Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
Jim is getting ready to snipe here with his non-vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
100% Jim is wolf here pointless lynching outside of claim with how obvious it is
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:38 AM
your post is very long, ask me a list of questions i can respond to instead of you making stuff up.

i noticed several contradictions very obviously in your tl;dr multiquote already. for one you said you knew palo was an obvious villager, then you criticized me for voting someone for voting palo! also, you were seerhunting then and you're trying to use that as villa points? I laid perfectly good seer cover. and of course you're going to be results oriented, you KNEW JIM WAS A WOLF. LYNCHING OUTSIDE THE CLAIM WAS STILL CORRECT.

but the biggest contradiction of all is the following:

you said that variance knew this was my wolf game and keep harping on it. that is false. the last thing variance said is that he would support lynching you over me. and same with well named. and same with fluttershy. it's because everyone ITT knows and knew you're a wolf. yet you still keep trying to find OLDER posts where they called you a villager. however, if you quote their LAST posts, it's quite clear they knew or at least suspected you are a wolf.

additionally, what you're describing isn't even how i play wolf anyway. as a wolf i don't push easy mislynches, i bus a LOT for credit. so you're now making something up and using it to build a case.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:39 AM
if i were a wolf, i would have bussed jim when he was peeked. 100% of the time. ALways. every time.

the fact that you did it is one of the things that tipped me off to you being a wolf. because it's such a suspicious play.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sangaman
I'm not sure what this is referring to?
it's in my multiquote

after jim starts getting heat and is afraid he's been peeked, he starts doing the fake spew dance with zsjostrom, who calls jim a villager for some stupid reason and jim calls him a wolf for defending him

then anarchist replies with "just because he called you a wolf doesn't mean he's one", showing he wasn't even paying attention to the conversation they were having

Quote:
Originally Posted by sangaman
On the contrary, I think if you can explain why a wolf team of Jim/zsj/TL/Loretta/Anarchist would make the kills that have happened in this game, it would be helpful to your case.
ok, I'll get to that at some point then

my point is that will just be speculation on my part




Quote:
Originally Posted by sangaman
I think the slip-up is referring to Anarchist as "the" wolf, suggesting you are a wolf who will win by lynching Anarchist therefore you are making your focus on lynching Anarchist. However, Anarchist's desire to lynch you today instead of Loretta shows that his focus is on lynching you.
there's no slip up

there is one wolf between me and anarchist

loretta is irrelevant

one thing worth pointing out is that the reason anarchist wants to lynch me, rather than loretta is because he wins on the spot if that happens

for the village to win, we have to lynch both of them
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:43 AM
im playing the same way i've played every other villager game. looking at peoples' tone and motives to see what their intentions are. your tone this game has been to bully people into mislynches. you've stated you "knew" who the wolves are and pushed for their lynches. this is false. i will go quote your voting record when i get back from class. this entire time you've posted about how you've known stuff, yet you made sure your vote ended up on a villager EVERY TIME except when we had a peeked wolf and you knew you could bus for credit.

and the specific post about well named, obviously (and i mean obviously) i asked him that rhetorical question "are you wolfing" to get him to talk to me so i could get a tone read off of him. stop nitpicking every goddamn thing, it just shows you have an agenda.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
one thing worth pointing out is that the reason anarchist wants to lynch me, rather than loretta is because he wins on the spot if that happens
another false statement. i am 100% happy to lynch loretta today. the only reason i'm scared is because i don't want you pulling any shenanigans at f3. you've made today all about me so that you can get me mislynched tomorrow. you're already setting it up. whatever, if it works that's not too embarassing cuz you're a good player. but it really shouldn't since your agenda is clear.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
your post is very long, ask me a list of questions i can respond to instead of you making stuff up.
sanga and domer can ask you whatever questions they want, based on my posts and/or their own thoughts

you're not going to convince me you're a villager

but please show me (and the jury) where I've made stuff up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
i noticed several contradictions very obviously in your tl;dr multiquote already. for one you said you knew palo was an obvious villager, then you criticized me for voting someone for voting palo! also, you were seerhunting then and you're trying to use that as villa points? I laid perfectly good seer cover. and of course you're going to be results oriented, you KNEW JIM WAS A WOLF. LYNCHING OUTSIDE THE CLAIM WAS STILL CORRECT.
I wasn't seerhunting

I've pointed out in my multiquotes that the seers made their peeks obvious

that's relevant to the question of fps, which is the only thing you have going for you

aksdal was pretty obvious on the day he claimed, which was why I encouraged him to claim; he said himself he thought that he would get night-killed

him claiming there was 100% correct imo

and lynching jim there is 100% correct

every time

don't think that you can pull a fast one about this just because sanga and domer are new players and you killed off WN

you lynch the wolf-peek in that spot

every time

there's nothing results-oriented about it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
but the biggest contradiction of all is the following:

you said that variance knew this was my wolf game and keep harping on it. that is false. the last thing variance said is that he would support lynching you over me. and same with well named. and same with fluttershy. it's because everyone ITT knows and knew you're a wolf. yet you still keep trying to find OLDER posts where they called you a villager. however, if you quote their LAST posts, it's quite clear they knew or at least suspected you are a wolf.

additionally, what you're describing isn't even how i play wolf anyway. as a wolf i don't push easy mislynches, i bus a LOT for credit. so you're now making something up and using it to build a case.
I'm not looking for posts where anyone called me a villager

please show me where I did that

you just got caught lying again

afaik, the only person I've quoted calling me a villager was you

I'm not going to use reads from players who had tons of bad reads as any kind of evidence

what kind of **** is that?

I'm using logical arguments; no appeals to authority, no appeals to popular opinion

this isn't a survey; we're not going to poll the audience

I'm a villager and you're a wolf and I'm pointing out all the evidence that shows that

feel free to dispute anything you disagree with

but make sure it's something I actually said

don't just pretend I said something that I didn't

and in any case, that's not even true because well named said there was basically no way I could be a wolf

and the only reason VM thought you were clear was because of the stupid nk

and are you sure you want to use flutter's read (self-described as fear) of me to support your case?

she had 4 of the 5 wolves in her villager lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
if i were a wolf, i would have bussed jim when he was peeked. 100% of the time. ALways. every time.

the fact that you did it is one of the things that tipped me off to you being a wolf. because it's such a suspicious play.
did that tip you off that aksdal, WN, 27ai, and VM were wolves too?

and claiming that the correct play is a suspicious play is just digging your hole deeper

no one is going to fall for that
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
im playing the same way i've played every other villager game. looking at peoples' tone and motives to see what their intentions are. your tone this game has been to bully people into mislynches. you've stated you "knew" who the wolves are and pushed for their lynches. this is false. i will go quote your voting record when i get back from class. this entire time you've posted about how you've known stuff, yet you made sure your vote ended up on a villager EVERY TIME except when we had a peeked wolf and you knew you could bus for credit.

and the specific post about well named, obviously (and i mean obviously) i asked him that rhetorical question "are you wolfing" to get him to talk to me so i could get a tone read off of him. stop nitpicking every goddamn thing, it just shows you have an agenda.
yes, I have an agenda

I want the truth to be as obvious as possible

that's my agenda

and I'm through responding to you

I'm not going to waste any more posts on your garbage
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
**** firefox

I just lost an enormous post
Ugh I hate that. Firefox has been crashing on me way too often after the recent updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
seriously, what villager leaves seer cover like this?

and the idea that he wouldn't fake-peek a wolf is just stupid

why wouldn't he?
Because I've never seen Anarchist peek a wolf on d1 as a wolf before. It's a single data point of Anarchist doing something I've never seen him do as a wolf, so it increases the likelihood that Anarchist is a villager.

Quote:
wolf timelady clearing wolf anarchist while calling him annoying
This does seem pretty w/w. Timelady makes one of those reads that isn't really a read. It's more like a "Hey did you guys know Anarchist is a villager when he's annoying? And my has he been annoying this game."

Quote:
anarchist still hasn't explained why fake-peeking me would be a good reason to sponge me

but the reason is obvious: they were both villagers so he'd love for them to get lynched and for me to get blamed for it

but if he wants to pretend he's a villager, he's going to have to make up some reason a villager would do that
Good point. Anarchist should know better than to sponge his peek especially if he thinks his peek's game is off as it seemed he suspected you were that day.

Quote:
aksdal had a couple roles from the mod

I have good reads
To be fair, your reads weren't perfect. Yes you were right to be suspicious of Jim and you could clear a couple players like me and domer (and Palo, in hindsight), but you weren't the only one. 3/4 likely wolves on this list are villagers, and 2/5 likely villagers are wolves, although you are 2/2 on obvious villagers. But really everyone could say sangaman was a villager, I'd been very active and villagery and I was SHC. One of my points along is that the never wolves never had any sort of plan that involved mislynching me.

Quote:
and this here is a clear slip

it's obvious that anarchist wasn't even reading the conversation between jim and zsjostrom

this is damning imo
Somehow the first time I read this I saw "just because someone calls you a villager does not make them a wolf." But you're right. Anarchist clearly had zsj's post backwards and that does mean he didn't read zsj's posts but chose to comment on it anyway.

Quote:
anarchist calling a villager wolfy for little or no reason
I agree that VM rereading the thread from the beginning wasn't wolfy. It was probably a waste of time to read from the beginning with no knowledge of the NKs and lynches, but the fact that VM was trying to reread at all could only increase the likelihood that he was a villager. It does look a bit like Anarchist was trying not to let a mislynch slip away.

Quote:
why would domer want to vote a tilty villager for not reading the thread closely?
Domer was actually convinced VM was a wolf and pushed him hard.

Quote:
this is garbage

making a "soft" seer-claim to protect a wolf

does it look like seer cover?

not at all

it's only purpose is to protect jim

at this point, I'm thinking if anarchist isn't a seer, he needs to die

guess what

he's not a seer
This is a pretty good point. It's a bad play to soft claim to hard defend a player for the sole reason that you may have peeked him.

Quote:
"idk what to do" let's ask sanga

note anarchist said the same thing (that he wanted to know what sanga and I thought) but when I said there was no reason to lynch outside the claim, he spazzed out did something completely different from what he had said

in other words, he was lying when he said that and he was just hoping we would both say to not lynch jim

this is damning
Good point. He clearly says he'll do what Sun and sanga want to do. I think I my take on the situation was I'm not sure what to do but I'm leaning towards lynching outside the claim, and I was torn between VM and Jinxy. You on the other hand were quite adamant that you wanted to lynch Jim. So why would he listen to one of us that's less sure? He even hard claimed vanillager so it's not like he had even a shred of seer cover worth preserving by not voting Jim.

Quote:
27 feels the same way I did: the claim is obviously legit and jim was wolfy anyway
27 felt the same way you did because he had TMI that Aksdal was a villager. He should have voted Jim. If I had peeked Aksdal, I would have voted Jim and made up some case for why lynching Jim was correct, I wouldn't have gone along with one of my other peeks who was unsure what to do but was leaning outside the claim.


[QUOTEthis has to be a lie. There's no way chips said that[/QUOTE]

Here is what I believe Anarchist was referring to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy
As I've said many times, villagers should never react honestly to claims. Most of the value of fake claiming is villagers do react honestly and thereby give away if they are <role> or not.

What sooted is doing is what every villager should do -- not reacting honestly to a fake claim.

When somebody claims, here's the checklist:
  1. Is the claim verifiable?
  2. Will the wolves resolve the claim?
  3. What is my opinion of the claim?

As soon as you have a "YES" answer, you stop going down the list! Your opinion of a claim is quite worthless when perfect information can be had for practically free.
Let me know your thoughts on this, Sun.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
your post is very long, ask me a list of questions i can respond to instead of you making stuff up.

i noticed several contradictions very obviously in your tl;dr multiquote already. for one you said you knew palo was an obvious villager, then you criticized me for voting someone for voting palo! also, you were seerhunting then and you're trying to use that as villa points? I laid perfectly good seer cover. and of course you're going to be results oriented, you KNEW JIM WAS A WOLF. LYNCHING OUTSIDE THE CLAIM WAS STILL CORRECT.

but the biggest contradiction of all is the following:

you said that variance knew this was my wolf game and keep harping on it. that is false. the last thing variance said is that he would support lynching you over me. and same with well named. and same with fluttershy. it's because everyone ITT knows and knew you're a wolf. yet you still keep trying to find OLDER posts where they called you a villager. however, if you quote their LAST posts, it's quite clear they knew or at least suspected you are a wolf.

additionally, what you're describing isn't even how i play wolf anyway. as a wolf i don't push easy mislynches, i bus a LOT for credit. so you're now making something up and using it to build a case.
I don't want to be accused of "not reading the thread" but can you show where variance said he'd rather lynch Sun over you? I know WN felt that way, but he was pretty sure you were both villagers really. I'll reread on my own and pay attention for this if you don't quote it.

Anarchist, in Video Games I don't really remember you bussing anyone. Gad a bit but you didn't vote him on d1, only when it was obvious he was a wolf IIRC. Of course the wolves crushed that game, so bussing wasn't necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
if i were a wolf, i would have bussed jim when he was peeked. 100% of the time. ALways. every time.

the fact that you did it is one of the things that tipped me off to you being a wolf. because it's such a suspicious play.
I don't really buy in to arguments that a player would never do something as a wolf that's trivially easy to do as a wolf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
and the specific post about well named, obviously (and i mean obviously) i asked him that rhetorical question "are you wolfing" to get him to talk to me so i could get a tone read off of him. stop nitpicking every goddamn thing, it just shows you have an agenda.
This makes sense.

------------------------------

Alright here's where I stand. I'm going to be operating under the assumption that Loretta is a wolf for now. I gave Loretta a chance to make me think he's a villager, but I don't think that's going to happen. So from now on I'm considering only two wolf teams, Sun/Jim/TL/zsj/Loretta and Anarchist/Jim/TL/zsj/Loretta.

I'm going to start rereading the thread soon and I'll try to look at everything both ways. I'm blowing off work for the next few hours. I won't be quoting/responding to everything or try building a case since the only person I'm really trying to convince is my wolf, but I'll try to share some thoughts as I go along so you guys know where I'm at.

Sun and Anarchist, I think you've both played good games and you've both earned my respect. Sun, your work and your posts today have been tremendous and, in a vacuum, I'd be shocked if you were a wolf. But as of yesterday, I didn't see any way for Anarchist to be a wolf either (largely based on the Flutter NK). So I'm doing something wrong somewhere and I'm going to try to figure it out.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
if shanks flips villa then we kill sun tzu

if loretta flips villa then we kill anarchist?

im sure we can figure out the optimal path based on those 4s interactions
this seemed to be his opinion. and i largely agree with it obviously. Sun Tzu was pushing shanks hard which makes no sense given his claim that he "knew who the wolves are."

sanga, we've played a lot together. i'm really not this tricky. you're thinking about 3 levels too high imo. take all the time you need, but i'm pretty sure level 1 solves this game.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:42 PM
This is your voting history from days 2 through 4. Day 1 you didn't even both to vote. Day 2 you voted for a villager. Day 3 you went inside the claim. After that you voted for the outed/peeked wolves just like everyone else.

So my question is, if the wolves were so obvious as you claim, why did you never vote for them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MewsicLovr
Count is slightly off. Jim was actually on Kruze as of post #700.

Sorry about that.


Votes as of post 736
---
VotesLynchVoters
9 KruZe Aksdal (35), Anarchist (32), domer2 (24), DonkDonkDonkDonk (15), JimHalpert (34), Master3004 (21), sangaman (35), Sun Tzu (33), well named (28)
6 Master3004 27AllIn (27), Fluttershy (22), KruZe (5), Loretta8 (9), shanks (15), zsjostrom35 (9)
2 VarianceMinefield TimeLady (16), VarianceMinefield (6)
1 Fluttershy Jinxy52 (13)
1 not voting TheNothing (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MewsicLovr
Votes as of post 1207
---
VotesLynchVoters
7 Jinxy52 Master3004 (28), 27AllIn (29), Fluttershy (35), JimHalpert (29), sangaman (35), TimeLady (23), zsjostrom35 (9)
4 JimHalpert Aksdal (41), Sun Tzu (44), VarianceMinefield (35), well named (35)
3 VarianceMinefield Anarchist (49), domer2 (24), Loretta8 (15)
1 sangaman Jinxy52 (16)
1 not voting shanks (7)


Jinxy is lynched, she was a mouse (villager)

Night actions by 12:30am server time please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MewsicLovr
Votes as of post 1594
---
VotesLynchVoters
7 JimHalpert 27AllIn (9), domer2 (36), Loretta8 (26), sangaman (37), shanks (9), Sun Tzu (39), TimeLady (37)
6 not voting well named (19), zsjostrom35 (1), Anarchist (0), Fluttershy (56), JimHalpert (22), VarianceMinefield (64)




All Jim wanted was to live in Paris and cook food. But the owner of the establishment found out and kicked him out.



Jim was lynched. It came as no surprise to anyone that he was



Night actions by 12:30 am please.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:49 PM
anarchist, can you and sun please post the wolf chat logs of the two of you planning out your coordinated in thread attacks on each other after i get mislynched here?
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:51 PM
loretta, i want to thank you in advance for not planning the end of game out at all.

as a result, you spewed sun so, so hard.

should have though about that one before the shanks mislynch.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:51 PM
as for that chips stuff about whether or not to lynch outside the claim, situations are situational. the game chips was yelling at you about, lynching inside the claim was lolbad, here, in the absence of a counter, it was a perfectly reasonable move. i'm kinda surprised anarchist didn't jump on jim the way sun did, i guess it was all part of the plan to set up the impossibility of you two being w/w
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:52 PM
i didn't jump on jim because it's a terrible play and outs you as a wolf. the only way you can do that is if you know jim is a wolf. and the only way that's true is if you're his partner.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:55 PM
an uncountered seer said he was a wolf

therefore, he was a wolf
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:56 PM
jim did counter. he said he was a villager. unless someone lolcats, why would you test a seer claim? let the wolves do it. you and sun know this and you're just trolling me
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
if i get nked and flip seer(i shouldnt be but u dont kno)

n0 sanga villa
n1 fluttershy villa
n2 sun tzu villa
n3 anarchist wolf
I'm going to be following along to see if these peeks make sense for VM. If he was in seer contention, it's much more likely that Fluttershy was FPSed. That's because wolves can't afford to be wrong if they choose between 27a and VM, it's game over if they kill an uncleared vanillager on n4. In that case, killing Flutter might actually be the "safer" play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLady
Good lord so many of these posts have >5 words in them.

I like Anarchist jumping on 27AllIn - 27 is a new player, it's possible he could make that sort of slip as a wolf, and Anarchist immediately pointing it out it villagery, regardless of 27's actual role.
Could be w/w with Anarchist here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield
just skimmed thread

villagers

sanga



aksdal



palo


maybe anarchist


wolves
27allin

internet is on and off so i will vote now.
Sangaman n0 peek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
Who are all these wolfy players? I see a lot of nitpicking on page 1 of day 1. I don't think anyone is overly wolfy, and I don't think you really think there are.
This is towards Anarchist. This is a bit w/w in the same way that Jim was giving zsj a hard time over petty things. I think Jim tried to spew zsj villager (but it backfired) and he may have been trying to do the same thing here with Anarchist.

---------------------

Done with d1. d2 becomes interesting because that's when becomes Sun starts participating.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 02:05 PM
variance obv wasn't seer since both sun and anarchist are wolves

hope that helps, sanga
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretta8
an uncountered seer said he was a wolf

therefore, he was a wolf
Says the person who conveniently missed EOD on d3 and didn't have to take a stand on the claim.

Something to note here is that a seer would only counterclaim if they have knowledge that Aksdal's claim is false. Since there were multiple seers, it's like the seer could have said "you can't be the seer because I'm the seer."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
loretta, i want to thank you in advance for not planning the end of game out at all.

as a result, you spewed sun so, so hard.

should have though about that one before the shanks mislynch.
Where is the spew? Is it just that Loretta said Sun was a likely villager the last two days? Because I really can't buy that, after the wolves have perfect info it's dangerous to get information from anything they say.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote
11-08-2011 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Where is the spew? Is it just that Loretta said Sun was a likely villager the last two days? Because I really can't buy that, after the wolves have perfect info it's dangerous to get information from anything they say.

Yes. Loretta and Sun have not interacted even ONCE in thread. Yet mysteriously loretta has sun down as a lock wolf and says never to lynch him. And mysteriously they both want to push shanks, and both have made me the focus of their attention today.
10/31 - Rat Infestation Game Thread Quote

      
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