Okay, Fool's told today's result, which is what I was waiting for.

IMPORTANT: I am counterclaiming Foolishness.

I am an Odd Night Affiliation Seer/Cop. This means I can check a person's alignment on odd nights. My N1 check was Binkles, town, which is why I dropped my scumread on him immediately when D2 began. My N3 check, last night, was on Foolishness, mafia - safe play, to prevent the atrocious situation of Fool ending up actually being town with either info or really strong suspicion on Mango.

Reasons I did not CC yesterday:

1: All info I had on hand was a dead townie.
2: I was pretty certain Mango was scum anyway.

So I wanted to wait for my own check and for Foolishness to claim his check today.

Foolishness

why must you post this when i'm about to go home and workout

arg

I can't see the mafia motivation for counterclaiming a cop, who, if lynched, confirms like 3 other townies

Although that one kill last night when there is a flipped town 3x? Vig means that mafia have a 2x vig (very unlikely imo) orrrr there was a block/doc. I'm going to assume that the mafia don't just have infinite double kills every night although that scenario would make Fool's PR claim look more legit for balance reasons.
...
OR its possible mafia are sitting on a shot(s) to make Fool look better. I find that about as easy to swallow as a doc and 2 cops in one game. I mean I dunno what the point of keeping him around would be since there is no way hes making it to lylo, but eh. I'm willing to give him a pass for today since there are a few good picks for scum elsewhere.

I need to ISO Blood Fox, I just remember him saying a few snippets to DGB that looked like scumplaining but can't recall much of what hes done.

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Fool, I'm liking your posts today but I really disagree about DGB. This is someone who has claimed masons with another scum buddy before. Any "obviously town" things she does should be taken with a grain of salt.

You don't even think anyone early on the Infidel wagon was possible scum and thought it may not go through? All town wagons are possible but kinda rare :S

Regarding the Fank vote on Infidel, the votes just before the change were 6 on Verbal and 5 on Foolish, 2 on Infidel. Fank was voting Foolish, but changed to Infidel and then Binkles voted Infidel making it 6-4-4. Fank could have stayed on Foolish if Fank is wolf and helped keep 2 town as top lynches. I am still liking Fank.

So let me get this straight.

You decided not to CC him as he was likely claiming a mislynch on Mango.

Mango flips mafia.

You INVESTIGATE the guy that you have a counter claim for.

And THEN CC him?

unvote

I'm pretty sure that one of the three Foolishness townie checks is maf, probably no more. There might be 2 or 3 maf left, if 3 then one of them is probably on Fool's suspicion list today but not a main target. They can't really afford to bus anymore at this stage, with this sort of ploy.

If I had to choose, Verbal and mastin2. But this is just a hunch, I haven't gone over the recent days in detail due to my lack of time. Also, I'm still kind of waffling on Nana.

Why did you care about his result today if you KNOW hes scum?

It would be completely meaningless.

Why did you think that Fool was randomly claiming a guilty on a scum buddy for no reason?

If I had a CC, I'd claim IMMEDIATELY to prevent the likely mango mislynch.

Also, did you crumb this at all?

I was almost certain Mango was scum yesterday. Not only did I have a strong scumread on him myself, but Foolishness claiming cop just to mislynch Mango and then die himself would be ridiculous.

The unlikely yet sadly possible situation of Fool being town-sided anyway prompted me to check him because I felt one check lost to ascertain an obvious thing was worth denying the chance of us both getting lynched as town PRs and mafia slipping away in the confusion.

Murska, why are you wafflling on me when I could not have pushed Foolish any harder on d2? I was on him like white on rice.

And Fool randomly claiming a guilty on scum-Mango and marking himself for death is any more reasonable than him claiming a guilty on Mango? ****, Mango could have been a PR or something that they felt Fool wasnt going to outlive.

Let me reread you...

Maf would assume that a full cop dead means it's likely there's no-one to CC Foolishness, and thus he could bus a scum to 'clear' himself and lead the town for several days. Scum team is getting desperate, running out of numbers, they had to do something.

Whereas scum randomly suiciding one of their (low) number to mislynch a single town? If Mango had been a town-sided PR, he'd have immediately claimed (I would bet anything that he was online and didn't post on purpose yesterday) and we'd likely as not have ended up lynching Fool. And even if we didn't, scum wouldn't exchange 1:1 for town, /especially/ when they're losing bad.

Didn't crumb. It's not common behaviour where I play, and I didn't really have any information. Figured I'd be as likely as not to make a mistake and lose my comfortable 'forgettable and kind of towny' status that has let me stay under the radar this game, by being too obvious about it.

Nana: That is actually the only reason I'm not actively scumreading you. Still, if the Foolishness claim was planned (which it was, given the Mastin thing the previous day), you could've planned to push him as well in the comfort of knowing that Foolishness wouldn't be lynched thanks to his claim.

Let's assume that an un-CCd cop claim who's been 'cleared' by a scumlynch would be able to lead the town away from maf for... 3 days. Generous, but very possible. That'd be at least 6 town deaths, probably more thanks to maf vig. Assuming 6, that's an exchange of 6 to 2 (or 3:1). The alternative being that maf is exchanging 1:1. I figured the risky but rewarding play is much more likely than the stupid and suicidal play from a desperate mafia team. Plus, as mentioned, I had a strong scumread on Mango.

I don't get why you default to thinking its a bus when you KNOW Fool is scum.

How commonly do games on your site have duplicate roles?

If I had Murska's role, I would have played it the same way Murska did.

Usually never. What is it that you don't understand in that post? I'm saying that I think Foolishness is scum (I know this is true) and trying to lynch Mango, who is also scum (I'm almost certain this is true).

Gahh, and this is giving me the same vibes that Iec did on my home site. This claim just feels SO scum.

Timing is opportunistic and does not really add up
Doesnt actually give town any info at all

Buuuut, Fool is also a sketchy person. Could this be some multi-faceted bus chain?

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Did anybody roleblock probable scum last night? Its time to claim if you did.

Sidenote: Funny thing, but I'm literally playing a good-guy Nazi this game. :P

The ****?

You would let this guy lynch a random person when you have strong reason to believe that he is lying?

How is that town motivated at ALL?

You ****ing CC right away so that you don't lose credibility.

Murska has no credibility right now because he isn't thinking like hes town.

AP: Assume that you are 90% certain Foolishness is scum. Explain to me why you would assume, in yesterday's situation, that Mango is town?

Regarding duplicate roles, they are rare to nonexistant in my home forum, but realize that I already have a duplicate role with Giga in this game (to most intents and purposes, I realize mine's weaker). Also, it's almost a given that any game with a seer on my forum also has a 'fool', which is a seer that always gets random results. (I do realize such a role does not exist in this game, given the rules as posted, it's just a note so people can better meta me if they wish.)

Either Murska is true and Fool played a risky game of lead the town. Also need to believe Mango was voting for a fellow wolf most of d2.

Or Murska is lying and wolves are trading a wolf to get Fool.

Much less likely, both wolves and they are playing an insane bus game.

We could lynch Murska today for confirm and move on Fool tomorrow based on that. Or lynch Fool today and then Murska if Fool shows up as cop.

@Murska: I dunno, if someone claimed the same role name as mine I would have FLIPPED OUT. There would be no calm stalling. It would be yelling and screeching and claiming time.

And you acknowledge that your role is similar to Giga, did you honestly think there was a chance there were THREE cops in one setup???

To the point you are just going to let this practically confirmed scum from your perspective do his thing and you just sit there and not? And waste an investigative role confirming that there really aren't 3 cops in the setup (what a shock?)

Did you crumb at all?