Maybe it's no promotion of these groups, but instead to ISOLATE the better-equipped women, casino dealers, and seniors --- because they can pick up on bluffing and deceipt much more quickly than majority of the regularly seated males. It protects males from the LEARNED advantages (not the biological differences) that these groups possess. :-)

...

I think you pretty much answered your own question as to why ladies tournaments should not count towards player of the year standings, didn't you? They are theoretically open for now, but if the Epstein incident taught us anything, it's that we can't even count on men who play in such events getting fair treatment from the tournament director, to say nothing from the very real threat of explicit (and predictably, unchecked) collusion by the other players at a man's table.

Even more so, if they plan on circumventing "equal accommodation" laws by working the "promotional pricing angle" and obtaining de facto segregation by charging men outrageous entry fees that they don't charge women, can you really say that these tournaments are fair and open?

Absolutely no comment on women's only tournaments as they stand, but giving women players in the WSOP circuit a substantial tangible competitive advantage goes way beyond "promotion to women" and straight into explicit discrimination. At that point, why not simply say the top-point-getting women directly qualify for whatever open tour championship the WSOP wants to use. It'd only be a difference of degree at that point.

In general, I think that a business should be able to cater to whomever they want. If a casino wants to have a women's, or senior, or under-21 tournament, they should be able to do so. However, when these "special" tournaments receive equal status in areas such as bracelets, or player-of-the year points, you have a different problem.

I'm 56 years old, so let's say I run a marathon with 5,000 entrants, and I win the 55-59 age group. I would win some sort of medal or trophy, and maybe a cash prize as well. I certainly wouldn't expect to get the same prize as the runner in his 20s or 30s who takes it down.

wat

You knew him for 1 1/2 years and you didnt ask him where he was from?

Is this why all the young internet pros are getting the drag on and entering the womans tournament? what about the seniors tournament? i dont see anyone putting on there grandads sunday best and entering the seniors event.

I guess its cause eventually everyone will be able to play the seniors event. You just gotta get to 55 before you do.

It never occured to me. It was a small college. Most of the students commuted and lived within a 45-minute drive. There were very few, if any, international students, and he did not have an accent which was out of place in Michigan.

I can top that.

It took me 30+ years to realize that half of my cousin's on my mom's side of the family are Hispanic.

I think they're ok - They offer a comfortable environment for some women who want to get involved but are intimidated by a table full of men. Not to mention, they help promote women in poker which is always a +1!

NB: Haven't read the thread (I'm lazy ) so apologies if the same view has already been expressed.

Personally can't really stand playing in them unless I'm getting hammered due to all the emotion & screaming every single hand. But I do think they are a good way to get less confident women into poker (especially the WAGs etc) who are initimated by all the douche lords with their hoods & caps & glasses bullying them.

I say let them have the event, who cares. I don't know if there is any difference in skill level between men and women. I suppose a study would have to be done. I would like to know why all the best chess players have generally been men and why all the top poker players are men. Is it simply a numbers issue or something more?

Lustee, I've missed you lots! Your posts always make me smile.

I've always thought it might be easier to start getting more women into poker locally. I'd like to organize something where I live does anyone have any ideas?

Awww thanks that made me smile! I took a 4 month hiatus off poker over the winter (your summer probs) due to IRL stuff but I'm back now!

In NZ & Aussie a tonne of woman of all ages play in the pub poker leagues. They are generally free to enter & final table gets points toward a leader board + bar tabs or something very similar. They promote a really laid back, social atmosphere which is fun & a great way to meet people. Is there anything like that where you are?

We have leagues just not with that many chicks.

It's the abuse of Human Rights Codes that tilts me on when I see men at ladies events.

Using the guise of a human rights complaint to position one's self to exploit a perceived weakness is abuse.

Glad to see some casino's are taking measures to put an end to this.

do you think the codes should be changed to something more along these lines so they can't be so easily abused?
i'm a pretty big fan of letting the market dictate business decisions. maybe women's only tournaments will be a good thing; maybe they won't. the one thing i'm confident about is this: if the government had no say in such matters we'd get a reliable answer from the the people. this would be a radical change from the status quo.

Why men rise to the top of a given field is a complicated question. There do seem to be fields where men are greatly outnumbered as a whole, but are disproportionally represented at the highest levels. Flute players and cooks/chefs are two common examples.

For example, US high schools generally have nearly 100% female flute sections, but males are disproportionally represented at the highest levels, such as symphony orchestra spots, studio musicians, and touring classical solists. Bias is not a possible explanation for some of these situations. For example, orchestral auditions are often "blind", that is, you play behind a screen or send in a tape, and your age/looks/gender/apprearance are unknown to the audition judges.

I went to a high school that had around 30 flute players in 3 different bands. They were all female. The only male flute player (as his primary instrument) that I have ever played with was the principal player in an army band. Interestingly, I was the principal clarinet in a section that was, for much of the time, all female except for me.

There is one thing to consider as far as rising to the top. Female IQs are clustered around the mean more tightly than male IQs. Another way of putting that is that more males then females have IQs over 120, and more males than females also have IQs below 80.

That could mean a lot of things, for example, it could be true that there will always be more male than female poker geniuses. But then it would also be true that more total women than men should be able to be winning poker players, because more males than females would have subnormal IQs and no shot at playing winning poker.

bump

In think steps should be taken to reduce/eliminate abuses to peoples rights, but not specifically for female poker players.

Casino's where I live have been able to take creative steps to limit or eliminate male entries into women's events. One casino has started offering male-only events and another will let men register only on the day of the event if it is not sold out.

I understand that Nevada has passed some sort of law (don't think it was a change to any human rights code) that gives casino's the right to refuse males entry into women's events. I haven't been able to find too many details of this on the internet. Can anyone confirm if the laws in Nevada have in fact been changed?

I think these women's events are fine. I've played in 2 of them over the years in AC when the WSOP has come to town. The crowd of women is interesting to see, and by the amount of jewelry at the tables I've been at it has the feel of a bridge game at the country club. Play varies wildly from beginners to weak tight nits to women over playing their hands because they are used to playing in bar or home games that are much looser. There have been some good solid aggressive women as well- Over all- exactly the kind of players you would run into in any tournament except we all wear bras.

Let's not be as naive to say that all women feel equal to men, play the same as men, or have logged the same amount of hours as men and have read the same amount of poker books as men. There are plenty of women who look into that poker room and take a big gulp, thinking they will have to navigate a night of BO, poor manners, snyde remarks, cursing, and plumbers crack. I've stood at the doorway of the Taj back in 2000 when I turned 21 and thought the same thing as I noticed there might have been a handful of women in the entire room. The difference being, I walked in and delt with it all because I love poker. I didn't need a ladies tourney to dip my toe in because that's just not me. I jump in and swim.

There are plenty of women who do feel like they want to try a ladies event to get wet behind the ears. This is great, any way we can incourage a women to take up this sport/hobby is a good thing.

Ultimately, the fact their are ladies events will not be the main argument of women are as good as men at poker, it will be microscopic to the fact that women make up less then 10% of the main event entries, and only a few excellent players out there are women. It's not that we suck at poker, it's that so few of us love to play it and take it to the next level. It's a numbers game, any way women can be encouraged to compete is a good thing, we need 50% of the main event field to be women, and we need a few women players to tangle with the likes of Dwan and Ivy.

We can have this discussion of women's tourneys when we have achieved these goals. For now, hold your hats feminists, we need to increase ranks. If you've ever been to a womens event, seeing 300+ women show up is very encouraging for Poker. Never mind the inexperience or weak play that some point out, love of the game is the most important thing, nurture it!!

What an interesting poll. Speaking as a man, I have noticed an amusing dynamic that occurs in "ladies only" poker torunaments. When it gets down to the final table, you'll often see husbands and "significant others" of the ladies standing in a group (away from the table) intently watching the action as they simultaneously cheer their better half on. They try to act real cool about what's going on, (it's not that "manly" to blurt out something crude like "That's my wife in seat number 2 and she's the best poker player on that table!"), but you can tell that guys are really proud when their better half does well at poker. Wives and girlfriends do the same thing when their significant other makes a final table in an open event. That's one of the unique things about poker - the way the game strengthens bonds in a relationship. It's fun to see your spouse win a poker tournament!

Former DJ

beata, do you feel like they were designed for women to feel like they were among friends and give it a ladies night/girls night out feel ?

Update, just played in ladies event at the wsop circuit @ Caesars. I wish the levels were longer the. 20 min, wish the starting stack was 10,000 not 8,000. But otherwise fine. I must say, my experience at the table I was at was that the ladies mostly know what they are doing. Some don't, but this is what you would find amongst a group of men also. Big deal. I enjoyed the time there, ladies are a little more talkative in general, which can make for a fun table.

Bottom line, many of the people I played with would do well in cash or other tourneys, I look at this as an "exhibition" game of sorts, being its a non-ring event, and I don't think it's bad for poker, or women. The women there are there for many different reasons, so it wouldnt be fair to categorize the group as one thing or the other.

Yeah, as fun as it is hanging out with other ladies, I hate how the structures of ladies events in any series are always cut down to shorter levels or shorter stacks. Why is it that the ladies events can't have the standard structure of the other side events that are more conducive to skill?