how significant is this development?

Sacramento, CA, November 11, 2014 – The San Manuel Band of Mission Indians announced today that it has agreed to join the existing business agreement between the Morongo Band of Mission Indians, California’s three largest card clubs – the Commerce Club, the Hawaiian Gardens Casino and the Bicycle Casino – and the Amaya Gaming Group, which owns and operates PokerStars.

http://www.onlinepokerreport.com/144...-poker-effort/

I think it shows that Pokerstars has realized that forming a network among in-state interests turns foes into allies. The more, the merrier for Pokerstars, as it can only help them gain market share. Any 'watering down' of market share is borne by their partners.

I consider this significant. The San Manuel was one of the big supporters of the bad actor's clausing shutting stars out. Now if they are on board, Perchanga will probably follow, and soon, CA will have online Poker Stars.

The Santa Ysabel real money poker seems to be up... hesitant to be the guinea pig. Anyone try it yet?

Didn't take long, as predicted:

California Sues Iipay Nation Of Santa Ysabel over Internet Gaming

This will be a good test case. I think the Tribes will lose, though (#rigged lol). What really needs to happen is to address internet gaming with amendments to IGRA

fwiw

Iipay Nation files Counter Motion California

Interesting to see this play out before the 2015 Session, especially after San Manuel flipped the script and got on board with Amaya Group.

Early word is that CA got it's TRO against Iipay to block their online bingo, and quelch their internet poker hopes . . . details emerging, but it sounds like the decision has wide reaching implications

^^^^^^
Indian bingo site ordered shut down

.....

There is also a federal UIGEA lawsuit (from DOJ seeks UIGEA injunction against California Indian tribe ):

I just read the TRO ruling. Here are the salient points:

1. The PrivateTable bingo game is not a technologic aid to Class II bingo, but rather an electronic facsimile of bingo and therefore Class III gaming.
2. The wagering takes place both at the location of the player and the location of the game action.

The court concludes that the tribe is violating both the state-tribal compact and the UIGEA, and therefore grants the TRO due to the irreparable harm caused to the state and the risk to the public health.

Important to remember, this is a TRO ruling, not even a determination on the merits. It only asserts a likelihood to prevail. It doesn't assure it.

That said, as I read the ruling, the description of the Bingo game play is very much a facsimile. The only player action in a Bingo game is the marking of the cards, and if this is done automatically for you, as described in the report, then of course this is a facsimile by definition and thus Class III. Everything hinges on that definition, if it is determined to be Class III, the state wins.

I wouldn't translate that automatically to mean that the same would be said for internet poker, as the players clearly still make all the same actions as in a live game. The question there remains are technological aids permissible for poker under IGRA.

I'm a bit bummed they went the Bingo route first, especially when the game clearly is automated and will, no doubt, be ruled Class III. It seems like a strategic error, in my view. They would have had a stronger case with poker, and likely now won't even attempt it. OTOH, they have nothing to lose by launching the poker platform as well, the TRO only applies to the Bingo site.

This, however, would make operating an online poker site under Class II difficult, as players would need to physically be on the reservation to play. But this is something that could be argued. I think if you have to make a deposit in person, then it could be argued that that is when and where the wagering takes place

2c

No, that just makes it advanced deposit wagering. The wagering itself still takes place at the time the bets are placed, i.e. during poker game play.

Suppose transaction is to register for a specific tournament at a set date and time. "Advanced registration" as opposed to advanced deposit wagering.

(Not saying that the Tribe was planning that, other that it is economically viable.)

+1

That's a little more complex to sort, but I still don't think that would fly. The player is still committing gambling at the time of play, i.e. that's when they are putting their money at risk on the play of a game for a chance to win something of value. While you could argue that technically the money is only placed at risk at the time of "advanced registration", I believe a federal court would rule that this narrow interpretation is simply an attempt to circumvent the Congressional intent in the UIGEA, to stop Internet gambling which is not expressly authorized under law. Bottom line, the player is still gambling outside of Indian lands over the Internet.

The judge covered this in his ruling, part III(B)(1)(b). He included this part to make it clear that even if he had held that the bingo gaming was Class II gaming and therefore not a violation of the tribal-state compact, the state would still prevail under the UIGEA as the gaming would not be taking place strictly on Indian lands. I think the implication is that operating Internet poker would fare no better.

Really the only hope that the tribe had was to try the "technologic aid" angle, which was easiest argued for bingo. If somehow they got that through, then they could go for Internet poker on the hope that the court would also rule that the technologic aid provision applies to any Class II game, not just bingo, and thereby Internet poker is Class II as well. This was a thin rope to hang onto, but I think a better legal strategy overall. Not that I think they had as much as a rat's ass chance in hell of prevailing whatever angle they took.

Committing gambling? You make it sound like playing is a crime!

Clearly there is a risk at the time of registration. The player may not be able to actually play because of an unforeseen event (like death or death in the immediate family or having to take his pet snake to the emergency vetenary clinic), and having no ability to get a refund.

Once locked into the tournament, the player is not able to put any additional funds at risk.

I agree, #112. But this point is arguable still, though odds are against such an argument being successful

While I agree the technological aid argument is better suited to Bingo, given the specific language of the IGRA, the problem with this particular online Bingo game is that the player(s) is effectively removed from the game. That being the case, it is a clear facsimile.

If their Bingo game required the player to watch all his cards (like a poker player multi-tabling) and had to mark them manually, then they could, IMHO, prevail on the technological aid argument. Unfortunately, from what Imrich said, the game was completely automated and clearly a facsimile

In some places it is.

Yep. Good technical argument. Tell it to the judge...and then watch him rule against you anyway. The case will be against the site, not you. The site will be running the game with players who do actually play the tournament, not a whole field of players who are at funerals or veterinary clinics. Your risk of forfeiting your money because you can't make the tournament is different than your risk of losing the money by gambling (playing the tournament). The first would take place when you make your deposit; the second when you play.

Which is why they were doomed to failure. They couldn't have the player doing game actions as then they could not make the argument that all gaming takes place on Indian lands. But at the same time they had to have the player doing game actions to make the system a "technologic aid" rather than a "game facsimile".

The only path to prevailing was to make all game actions take place on Indian lands, and hope that the court would still rule the system as a technologic aid. The judge wasn't buying that swamp land.

Desert Rose Bingo Offline, Santa Ysabel Responds to TRO