Like any other bill in the House or Senate I could be soon or never, no one knows when or if. It has to go threw the political process just like the 10000000000000000000 bill's proposed every year, it might never make it out of committee.

TE, reality check.

How many votes can the PPA deliver to ANY legislator anywhere?

They are not going to be impressed with the PPA threatening withholding support because of a provision that almost every legislator will agree with.

You can try to point out the advantages of your positions to the overall point of the legislation. But the welfare of current players on FTP/Stars who end up in opt out states is not the point of this legislation. Money is. Show then the money, maybe you get some say.

Again I urge you to spend your limited political capital wisely and not squander it fighting a provision that will find resonance with a lot of legislators.

Tuff

+1.

Of course I don't know the first thing about lobbying. In some negotiations you get credit for each time villain you are lobbying says "no". In others, each time you push for something you expend capital. If the second applies more than the first then I would think the 50% penalty is waaaay down the list of things that are important.

Completely disagree, unless you are willing to try and sell to the membership in a large number of states that they should support a bill that will make it much, much harder for them to play internet poker.

The welfare of players is the entire reason for existence of the PPA. Getting a bill passed is a tool to help players. Ignoring the effects on players to get a bill passed is exactly backwards.

If it was referred to the finance committee, let's just hope it gets a chance for discussion. It would be good to have an open debate and Kyl can bore everyone with his backwards 1920's beliefs.

Michael of NJ

Thanks rocketman...I mean what do we have to lose by being optimistic?? If anything it keeps the fire going...Some of us have been waiting since 2006. I myself was not going to compromise my bankroll to play on a site that wasn't publicly traded...I just trusted them more...So if we have to wait 6 months, a year, 2 years 5 years, or ten years, I'm gonna keep the fire burning.


There are guys out here who don't want to be taxed for their own selfish reasons...A lot of these naysayers would have never thought the UIGEA deadline would be extended...Think about it...That extension came out of nowhere...Everyone said why is Frank scheduling a meeting 2 days after the UIGEA would have been put into play? That's because there was a plan already in motion. Just because we don't know everything that is going on behind the scenes doesn't mean that nothing is going on!!! I know gov't can be lagging and upsetting, but that doesn't mean we should render her useless.


No way we wait 10 years. People could be going to Mars in ten years. You just never know with these things. It will come much sooner than that. And perhaps much sooner than we think. I am so sick of the negativity on these forums. We need optimism not realists here who only preach the status quo. Optimism brings about energy, passion, recommittment, involvement. I don't know what these guys r looking for. Don't tell me that we're facing an uphill battle. Duh!!! We've been facing the same one since 2006. What has dramatically changed since then? Pls, gimme a break.

Michael of NJ

The EU and WTO care about companies that are part of their member states. They will see this bill as a starting point. The fact that this bill is being proposed further illuminates any negotiations down the road because a precedence of legal online gambling would already have been established. That is what you lose sight of. Many of the EU online companies are publicly traded so the EU (which has member states in the WTO) will take up arms for those companies because any targeted legislation against them hurts the economy in the EU not to mention their stock exchanges. And you don't need to trouble your Washington contact...All the information is public knowledge and can be found online.

Michael of NJ

Many. PPA has shipped hundreds of thousands of letters to Capitol Hill. We often run ahead of issues like health care and banking reform.

I didn't say PPA would be hosting these letters. Rather, I said we as players can send letters like this. PPA will continue lobbying the Senate for the changes we see as best for players.

Also, I'd not be so sure that every legislator wants this provision.

Alienating the playing base could be the difference between passage and failure. Please stop assuming we players are like corks in the ocean, pushed by the tides with no possible means of controlling our own destiny. If we didn't take a stand after UIGEA passed, the only thing we'd be looking at now would be laws offering different flavors of federal prohibitions on our game.

I urge you to keep in mind that this bill is SOLELY due to the PPA and to the efforts of poker players who refused to give up.

If we listened to the naysayers after UIGEA passed, we'd have no political capital to worry about squandering. PPA knows what it's doing and will continue to make our case.

It's a fair question. If you said, "don't bother, Kyl will just block it," I'd take issue, but looking at how we'll chart this is the reason we have a discussion forum.

Not to be a dick, but you do know who Jay Cohen is right?

This really isn't naysaying. If you want to see naysaying, check the archives from a couple of years back. People used to come to this forum just to tell us that we're all fools who can't see that we cannot win.

No one has said, "just give up...Kyl will just block it." IMO, asking how Kyl will be handled is a fair question. My answer is that we'll continue advocating for the legislation through the House and the Senate. We'll continue talking to Kyl about why he ought to support our bill (the world has changed since 2006, and certainly since 1997) while pushing our legislation.

We have many opponents. It's instructive to keep this in mind, as it helps remind everyone of why we have to work hard if we're to win this.

The fact that you mentioned that this bill is not a legalization bill in disguise but rather a MAJOR tax legislation adds credence to the fact the major tax overhaul of the tax codes supercedes the impact of having online gambling (section C) attached to the bill.

Michael of NJ

It's safe to say Jay Cohen is familiar with the WTO case.

I don't always agree with Jay, but I have great respect for him. When the DoJ came calling, he could have stayed in the Caribbean. Instead, he came to the US to stand up to the DoJ in a court of law. While his case wasn't about poker, he was fighting part of the Wire Act that would have included online poker. It's fair to say he went to jail fighting for our right to play.

Omg...Well I must say I have egg on my face. I never thought for once he would be using his real name for all that he went through. I certainly do know who he is and I remember watching the peice. My sincerest apologies go out to Jay. Hope he can forgive me if I offended him. I now can understand where some of that pessimism may resonate from considering all that he went through. I do however believe that the tide is starting to turn. He payed dearly and that should not go unnoticed or forgotten.

Michael of NJ

A/[-'[-
bill with broad support is very difficult to block with a hold. This is why the process couldn't stop the healthcare bill.

If the bill can get 60 senate votes, it will become law, no matter what Kyle does.


... on an outlook issue, the treasury put a six month delay on uigea because of the likelihood of regulation legislation passing. Does it make sense for them to do that if the people in the know didn't think that there was a reasonable chance that legislation would be passed within the 6 month window? Also, saying that controversial legislation like this can't get passed in an election year is forgetting that this issue ISNT that controversial. Notice that the inclusion of the gambling language doesn't get reported anywhere, and that the UIGEA is something that almost nobody outside of us and FoF are aware of. Voting for or against this isn't a career killer that the media will be talking about constantly during the next election cycle.

Good positive talking points PJ! This bill is clearly different than healthcare. Heck, the legislators of the bill have already shown bipartisan support by working together to draft the bill. Something the healthcare bill may never even come close to even after the healthcare summit.

Your point about the delay is a good one. It was acknowledged by all officials (Bernarke, Geithner, and even Holder) that a 6-month delay was given to allow for possible legislation process to begin. While we continue to wait for a Committee vote in the House, I think June 1 will be another important day. With legislative process in the works, the UIGEA may face another delay yet again. From all the negative talk or people who classify themselves as realists, a second delay will prove that the writing is really on the wall. I feel that the intentions by the treasury dept and Fed'l Reserve will have been clearly stated: "Get us a bill that works". It would be a shot to the bowel of Jon Kyl. Can you imagine a scenario where the UIGEA just continues or repeatedly gets 6-month delays (even if online legislation is not passed for some time now)...It is not proposterous to suggest that. An occurence as such would send the message that they strongly don't want to enforce that law. A clear slap in the face of our opponents.


It has already been a few days since this bill was introduced and I'm still looking for opponents on the other side who have slammed this bill or will begin to slam it. Are they all currently confined to the healthcare debate? What about other political/social groups, organizations, conservative media outlets? Where is there outright hatred for a bill that simplifies the tax code for everyone, allows the gov't to recoup more $$$ and redistribute monies back to small businesses. Oh yeah, there is a gambling bill somewhere down in section c. So what!!! I can make the argument that it may be political suicide for representatives to return back to their communities saying that they voted against a bill that would provide these certain tax cuts. I guess they can try it at their own risk. If they do, either way its a good sign, for it will mean that we were able to get this landmark bill to a vote. And that is more than half the battle!


Michael of NJ

I hope the PPA knows what it is doing. Keep up the good fight.

Tuff

Can the PPA try to get the 50% tax to only apply to opt-in states? Seems like that would be compromise.

We'd like to get it removed completely, but the real focus is on the opt-out states.

+1!

I don't think this bill has a chance to pass, and not because of the internet poker language. There's some pretty radical tax reform that is sure to have a lot of opposition.

Not sure where to put it, but just wanted to say that Bill Frist's op-ed today on how using reconciliation violated the spirit of openness and bipartisanship that the Senate should have in passing laws makes me so, so angry.

Wonder if its worth a letter to the editor from the PPA

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/op...althintro.html

This just got put up on the front page of the St. Louis Post Dispatch website...

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...C?OpenDocument