So your basing your argument that stars is bad for competition bc a majority of players who play these turbos have figured out a pretty much optimal way to beat the game which has made it unprofitable to play them...o yeah and the high stakes already have the best rake to buyin ratio.

At least you tried to put some thought into it. Bottom line PS will do nothing but help in the US

stars has the monopoly on high stakes turbos because they have the only high stakes traffic that can support them.

they dont need to make the games beatable again by reducing rake to match potential skill edges in those games despite massive complaining.

.....because, what other options have we got


do you want this repeated in the states?

not other nice aspects about stars that other sites would be economically motivated to improve to match eventually

just this

Is the rake too high in some turbos on stars? Yes


But the rake is about 4x as high on nj.partypoker right now...

so if nj.party offers 200+60 turbos and nj.888 offers 200+20s then it wont take long for people to stop playing on party (besides 888s software is second best to only stars anyways, and their customer service was very good 12 out of the last 18 months as they sought to actively improve their offerings, and i heard they offer cage cashouts in AC somewhere, which is pretty interesting

not being in the region i only accidentally am aware of the above but id be hard pressed to think anyone aside from stars could best pacific/888 in the nj market within the next year due to the speed with which they have worked to improve their product over the last couple years in the non us market

so that good competitor with good features/sortware... they are alreay there setting the bar for other sites to try to catch up to, this should be pretty promising for you

if 888 is there you dont need stars to have a playable site, and its not good for the market in the lr if they are let in early, 888 is a good example of an operator that wouldnt get the market share it has worked to deserve if stars were there now (maybe even less than the joke that party poker has become) due largely just to existing name recognition from pre '06 and pre BF poker in the states



just as an aside, id get involved in the 888 feedback loop and try to get your particular poker interests recognized before id bother with a seemingly terminal party poker

^^^

Novel ideas, really.

Maybe we should kick Apple out of the tablet market because that are dominant in it. This will give Microsoft a chance. And just think of how many new and different coffee places we would have if we stop Starbucks from operating.

Your arguments are simply ludicrous. You don't promote competition by removing competitors. PERIOD

i lolled that you mentioned microsoft

so windows is the best os there is because everyone would vote with their wallets and support a better one if such a thing existed or arose

committing to an os, or a subscription to an internet/cable provider are excellent examples of the power of becoming dominant and entrenched and the consequences both good and bad for you the customer

but where is that competition you champion, if the customer often effectively or completely has no choice because one company "won" at some past point? whats competitive about the situation now?

revenue stream=development potential

uphill battles are often passed on by intelligent entrepreneurs

screw pokerstars riding out their monopoly, riding the game into the ground, and making a killing


worldwide stars is just beginning to lose back market share, and how long did it take for companies offering a better total package to gain an inch, and it is only an inch



but feel free to keep being shortsighted, you undoubtedly would be happier tomorrow if you had stars

+1

its always nice to end with a quote so... from someone in the "pokerstars software improvement suggestion" thread regarding the situation i dont want to see repeated/continued in the US:

You can claim victory over the internetz all you want, but the fact is I, as a consumer, want to play on PokerStars. **** all these other garbage sites stuck in the Stone Age.

You can drop the mic all u want and act pretentious, but you'll still be incorrect at the end of the day trying to claim that PokerStars is a monopoly. It is not, other than by a game of semantics if you are playing it.

LOL at calling Pokerstars a monopoly when they charge the lowest price(s) in the entire industry.

There's a good reason Stars is a dominant force in the industry. Its because people PREFER them. And if they became a dominant force in the US, it would be for one reason......because people PREFER them. They provide a better all around experience for players than all these other sites that, for lack of a better word, SUCK.

So whats the problem? Oh yea, its not "fair" to the other sites that suck, right?

^^^ I am sure there are lots of people who want to see the competition between the sites that stink. Sort of like watching the minor league World Series in baseball.

The NJDGE is protecting the b&m casinos that have invested billions in structures.
CET has 4 properties.
Is it not logical for PS to be excluded for this reason alone?

Email and call the DGE to state your preference for PS.
The other sites are mickey mouse in any comparision.

Im very very happy that pokerstars is BANNED in the U.S. nice job JERSEY

Why?

DOJ May Settle Pending iGaming Indictments with Corporate Fines

This may be the way that PS will be allowed to enter the NJ market

I'll be honest, I use to think Stars was dominant, and awesome too (when I was able to play there).

But, since I changed the skin/chips/cards at Bovada to look like Stars, I've been perfectly fine just playing there.

It's the Stars background that has you confused.

(j/k)

Update 1/23: Calvinayre.com deleted the report without explanation.

have you been paying attention to stars destroying sngs in exchange for a very lucrative but essentially unbeatable format of jackpot poker?


anyone who loves the game of poker, or thinks anyone should be able to set out to make a living playing it and succeed if they put in the work, should not want stars in the us for a long long long time (if ever.)

Wow, the post you are responding to is 9 months old. It took you this long to figure out this silly response.

More people will play on PokerStars than any other site because their software and customer service and reputation is better. Period.

More players is better. Period.

So I want Stars. So do 99% of the poker players in this country. Period.

Have a nice day.

The amount of Fish those games attract will be enormous….. as long as the rake is reasonable it will not kill poker

the rep and name recognition = precisely the reason for the severity of the problem, as ive said all along

more players arent better if they are seated at a roulette table< you cant take their money at roulette can you? (no, fyi)


and you havent been abroad aparently, stars has declined severely for a few years, ...before being aquired by a casino gaming company

smart money says Amayas aquisition of stars wont be changing that for the better

if you were looking out for your poker interests youd be educating "99% of the poker players in this country" rather than living in a dream world thinking stars is still pre BF stars (which was without argument far and away the best provider there was)
the rake is twice what it is at existing 2 handed 500 chip hypers at the higher limits, and as high as 3.5x what it is at the lower limits

its not the rake that makes the format terrible though, its the variance intrinsic to the variable return format, its not reasonable to think that you can just play well and profit anymore, "downswings" arent so easy to "tough out" when theres no reason to think they should end during your career or even lifetime



yes they attract fish like mad, (and will make fish go broke like mad, very addictive/exciting format, but broke fish are not helpfull to grinders) real issue is they put the fishes money where you cant get it unless you draw a jackpot game

the guys far better at math than myself have done roi/variance calcs and seem to have a consensus that these wont be beatable games unless you draw and win the jackpot games

a jackpot game you statistically have a 50% chance of being dealt into by your 13,800th game
(thats dealt in, you still have to be the one of 3 players who wins to really capitalize/make the time spent getting that chance worthwhile)

if noone thinks these games are beatable without hitting and winning the jackpot games (except the fish, which are playing these games instead of husng hyper stt and mttsng, you know, the games people used to play for a living back when poker was a skill game) then how are these good for anyone but Amayastars?



this is a discussion you in the states should be having, if youre serious about wanting the game back in some form, make sure its the right form or theres no point in bringing it back


pre bf stars was number 1 for some simple reasons we could all list

what we want is for other companies to emulate and improve on the traits that led to stars rise to market dominance, not stars to reenter the US carte blanche, because i promise you, stars interests are no longer yours

RiverRat - your whole argument is based upon Starts offering a particular format (the "Spin and Go") that you have been convinced is not in your own personal interests.

You could be right. Then, again, you admit to not being good in math, and thus, the way it "seems" to you is not the way it really is.

Nobody cares.

Poker includes many different formats and structures. Hold'em, Omaha, Stud, Draw, or Mixture. NL/PL or FL. Ring, MTT, SnG, or something else. The winning poker player is accomplished at all of these, and is free to pick and choose what works out best, which is likely to change over the course of time.

So if the hyper-HUSnG "specialists" are out of work because all of their customers are playing some other form of poker, either they adapt, or they don't. "Sink or Swim".

PS has found a form of poker that attracts the most important class of player - low stake recreational players. If this proves to be a very popular format, they will increase their bottom line by pursuing it. And, FYI, this is what every business is supposed to be doing.

What PS is not going to do is cater to a group of low limit grinders who are trying to make a "living". Neither will any other site. The business has matured, and everyone knows that it isn't optimal to have a bunch of scavengers walking away with tens of thousands of dollars per year from your site by playing $5 to $10 SnG's.

ROW PS still has WCOOP/SCOOP/etc. And the Sunday Majors. They still have traditional Sit and Goes. And all kinds of ring games. Nobody is being forced to play Spin and Goes. If players like the Spin and Goes, then PS would be insane not to offer them as well. And every site will imitate them.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence supporting your theory that we are better off without PS.

Thus, you should not be upset when the NJDGE grants a transactional waiver to PS, allowing them to participate in the NJ online gaming market. Which they will be doing this month.

im sure the ad homenim feels good, but lets leave it. yes?