I'm sorry then, I guess it is just going to potentially suck in a big way. Just to let you know, I am 100% for a bill delaying and/or reversing the UIGEA completely.



I'm really hoping we win this. I'm staying positive.

There's nothing to be sorry about. I'm just sharing what I've been hearing. There is a good deal of concern for what will happen once the regs take full effect (with an e ).

Me too. I'm actually hoping we get a fair shot at it.

It's simply amazing to me that we can be shown that they can find out who is sending us our poker money and that they can seize it and people still are in such denial that banks and the feds can easily find where the money is comming from and be in denial that things are only certain to get worse with out legislation.

Well it's not certain things will always get worse as I believe those fighting on our behalf are stronger than ever.

The problem with foreign bank checks is that they take a long time to clear a US bank account. So sites view them as a last resort because they are trying to give their customers good service. However, they cannot be blocked unlike US checks and the DoJ cannot seize the funds foreign payment processors in foreign banks. IMO, they will become the best method for US players to cash out under the UIGEA unless the DOJ gives up going after US payment processors.

My best guess is that it will get a little worse than what it is now--but, not tremendously worse. Admittedly, however, it seems like everyone agrees it is really hard to predict. Seems like a gamble no matter what direction we try to take; that is, pursuing legislation and litigation are both gambles with unpredictable results as well.

TE, do you think banks will wait until the last minute to implement their UIGEA policies? Haven't many banks already started implementing whatever their final UIGEA policy is going to be? I mean, some banks have already blocked some transactions, but will it get much worse than what we're experiencing now? I just have a hard time believing a bank will wait all the way until Dec. 1 before starting to implement whatever their policy is going to be.

Hearing from whom?

FWIW, I bank with a local company, my checks are almost always Canadian, they were only skeptical with the first couple because they'd never heard of the company/bank or whatever but now have no problems, they know they're from internet poker, and I've even chatted with one of the tellers whose son has gotten the same kind of check from internet poker

I expect banks to write the procedures, trial them, and gradually roll them out. I don't expect many to be fully up and running until we get closer to the deadline. They will need time to establish the final procedures (keep in mind that they have to show regulations designed to comply with UIGEA -- not just no violations). They may also be holding out for the extension bill to pass.

I do suspect that many banks will be eager to demonstrate compliance by showing evidence of closed accounts and blocked transactions.

What are the chances that the extension bill will pass this year? Just a guestimate, I know nobody knows for sure.

If this is the case then why have people been reporting checks from Canadian banks being "reversed" many weeks after they cleared. Doesn't bode well for the foreign check plan.

Zions Bank owns several other banks, including Vectra Bank and a bunch of other western banks. http://www.zionsbancorporation.com/

They are mormon owned, so they may be more zealous than others.

We don't have all the info on this yet. Some have said they are from Canadian banks others said they had problems from US checks. So far only a few say they had a problem it might not be widespread, we need to wait a few days and see if this is a larger problem or not

Only one guy (with one post) claimed his check was from Canada; the rest say it was from California. Either this guy is FOS, mistaken, or the Canadian processor stole the funds, but in no way does it have anything to do with the US.

Well that's one tiny relief.

Depends on what you mean by mormon owned. I had a conversation with my ex-wife who is a VP there (mainly because I was surprised she went to work for them). She said at one point the mormon church had owned a large percentage, but no longer did. However they still try (and often suceed) in influencing policy based on a few stories I've heard.

They actually cant really show compliance with the regs by doing those things, at least not with customer accounts. Not as the regs are written at least. They need to show they can stop the next Account Services from opening an account.

I do suspect some of these compliance procedures have been rolled out.

The bigger problem is actually not going to be helped by the delay bill, and that is just that with the latest DOJ seizure banks just want zero to do with internet poker. Until there is something that says internet poker is legal or we get a court victory, that's not going to change. A UIGEA delay bill helps, but its not going to get banks to reverse policies already in place w/r/t internet gambling.

Unfortunately you are probably right here. If there is an industry more conservative than banking I don't know what it is, especially when it comes to being in compliance with the myriad of regulations they have to follow. With the DOJ seizing processor accounts using justification other than UIGEA I think the Accounts Services case becomes even more critical. JPFisher's idea of filing suit on behalf of damaged poker players is looking more and more attractive.

Edit: minor word choice change.

I'm hearing that the sites are quite concerned about this.

IM confused TE, they are concerned about what?

If this article is correct http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mes...epared-if.html then Rep. Franks' bills will not even be debated until 2010. Can we wait that long? The UIGEA regulations will be enforceable in December. So what good will the delay bill do in 2010?

For the record, I don't trust courts; they're a gamble. However, the appellate courts get it right at least 50% of the time. OTOH, Congress is a mess and usually just out to get your lobbying money with issues like online gambling or online poker. I would take my chances on the litigation rather than Congress with online poker. But you already know my opinion.

After this article how many now agree?

JP, I agree with you. Congress will never act UNLESS we first have a court victory. The A.S. case could be it, IF somehow that court rules the money is to be returned, even on a technicality that it belongs to individuals (as mentioned in the DoJ filing) then congress will act.

However, then WE must be active to limit what congress does since we will be holding top, top cards.

obg

Full implentation of UIGEA.

OBG, you raise a good point. If Congress ever does anything to license and regulate online poker, then it will be a response to a court ruling declaring it legal and/or limiting the UIGEA regulations. I would include in any litigation, an argument that the present regulations of the UIGEA exceed the scope of the law because they do not define Unlawful Internet Gambling or require a list of entities with whom the banks cannot process transactions with a safe harbor for all unlisted entities.

IMO, even after a court victory, the PPA could successfully block any legislation that it did not approve. Its position would be strong as opposed to its present relatively weak position.

Oh ok, understood. What is their prognonsis? Are they already looking at backup options for cashouts and deposits?