No.

Mat,

This is a pretty good example of a P post these days.

Lying always helps your case

Sexism.

Well, there's been some discussion here regarding trans men and women, and I think I've clearly pointed out how trans men and women are the most marginalized members of society, and the issue of them using the restroom, or serving in the military, or playing sports, is an issue of civil rights for which they are fighting hard for.

So there's been clear discussion here in this thread on the topic, and readers that are on the fence should be able to be better informed about their opinion.

There has not been transphobic bigotry in this thread, so clearly this sort of discussion can be had completely absent of bigotry. So therefor, there isn't a need to allow transphobic bigotry to "spark the discussion" or whatever.

This wasn't in any way related to Wookie or the politics subforum and any issue I have had has since been resolved. Looks like everybody is cool so never mind, I'll be sure to let you know if I happen to see a mod appointed willy-nilly in the future.

Mmmm hmmm

ya this day has shown that lying is undoubtedly the biggest problem on this forum. and it is overwhelmingly done by one side in particular.

That is kind of the point about letting people say repugnant stuff and then allowing people to refute it thoughtfully. This has long been held as sacrosanct by us older liberals. It isn't about the person you are conversing with; it is about the onlookers who see you taking the higher ground.

As a small aside, I'm extremely unsure of whether the argument that this will lead to progress is correct.

20's social groups?!?!??!??
(massive paragraph)



only a few people will get this

twoplustwo is a business that offers the service of an internet forum, and also poker books to customers. Their service is not political discussion, that's only part of it.

I have not stated or asked to "moderate all posts that offend me."

Regarding the issue of welcoming or unwelcoming environment, consider a dance hall or a place where people gather for social gatherings. If a portion of the people in the dance hall openly express transphobic bigotry, and a trans person overheard it and raised issue with the owner, and nothing was done about it, they would feel unwelcomed in the dance hall, not just by the patrons, but also by the owners, because they did not care enough to make efforts to create a welcoming environment. This is in effect a policy stating "transgenders are not welcome here" because of inaction taken to create a welcoming environment. This is tantamount to offering no service to the unwelcome transgenders, and this is a violation of their civil rights.

I'm not arguing your side regarding mainstream or fringe position. I've demonstrated that the idea of legally prohibiting trans men and women from using the restroom is a minority, fringe political position. Most people are accepting, and accommodating. Again, 7 trans men and women just won elections, and a transgender woman unseated the author of an anti trans bathroom bill. Accepting and accomodating trans men and women is mainstream political thought. Demonizing, scape goating, and stigmatizing them is not.

You think "I wouldn't be comfortable with my children using the same restroom as black people" is not ok, but you think "I wouldn't be comfortable with my children using the same restroom as trans people" is ok.

This is an issue of civil rights, and this says a lot about you, and I'm pretty much done with you.

It's not ok to disallow business service to black people
It's not ok to disallow restroom use to black people
It's not ok to disallow military service to black people
It's not ok to disallow sports participation to black people

All of the above is exactly the same for trans people, because this is about

So why did TS get banned?

I've made my stance on transphobia pretty clear. That's not the only, main, issue of bigotry that occurs on this site. I'd still like to see examples of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. that people think should be allowed. Until then I'm bowing out because I have better things to do then have the same arguments with the same people thirty times.

The past couple decades' worth of cognitive research and recent history pretty strongly suggests it is false. It's about time for that particular myth to die. Curiously (not really), the people most hellbent on keeping it going are the same ones who want free rein to say reprehensible ****.

"Permanent trolling"

Pretty sure scientists have examined the issue, and it just leads to violent extremists. See Charlottesville or that dude who killed his own dad for mocking his pizzagate Nazi beliefs.

I'd love to hear more about this cognitive research that I've apparently missed. Recent history is just a counter-trend, I think (or maybe just want to believe).

Is it worth starting a thread about? I'm actually completely on the fence about the topic, other than some idealistic **** that sounds good and a few anecdotes.

Open discussion is passe, Brian... we're back to the future with struggle sessions and ideological purges, supported by spanking-new and surely unbiased research. No but seriously, the discuss and debate method you reference is superior because it acts as a safety valve against the oppression that is inevitable when dissent is suppressed. This used to be obvious but clearly times are changing.

I'm actually against open discussion already

let me tell you a true story. honest to god, this is 100% true. happened about a month ago.

i had just gotten off of work and was walking to my car. i saw a blind black man crossing the street with one of those huge canes for blind people. he was rapping the ground but had drifted out of the crosswalk and was walking in the street.

i walk up to him and say "hello sir, let me help you" and link arms with him like we're walking down the aisle to get married. he repels away and whacks me as hard as he can with his cane. he yells "that's self defense! you grabbed me!"

i say, "sorry, was just trying to help you cross the street" and he replied "that offends me! i don't need help!"

a bystander who saw the whole thing stepped in to settle the blind guy's hash and i walked away. the two guys yelled at each other for a minute or so and then the blind man continued walking in the street until cars started honking at him.

i swear on my grandmother's grave and my parents' lives that this story is 100% true.

now, go ahead and share a story you have that illustrates how racist i am.

It used to be obvious means you have no way of proving it whatsoever, it’s just a gut feel. A lot of people confuse their gut feels about how things obviously ought to be with reality. Easy mistake to make.

Edit

And here’s a few starting pieces from the last time we had this exact conversation five months ago

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=264

Thus proving discussion doesn’t change minds

"Don't be silly, please. Even when dealing with silly people."

Why didn’t you tell him he was in the street?

You dont need to read into your heart or mind to know you are a religious bigot against Islam. Just your many posts that condemn and disparage it in its entirety as irredeemable.

You also dont have to be much of a mind reader on your views of AA either, though you are a little slicker there.

That is if you were not trolling for dollars.