Right, so it's best to assume that the volunteer mods have nothing but the worst of intentions, and nothing better to do with their time than to hide the truth from you. Much like it was best to assume your post was deleted to hide the truth, and that this thread was moved to do the same. It must be thoughtful guys like you that make all that volunteer time feel worthwhile.

Another one who doesn't grasp the concept of reading the rules, eh?

Threads about moderator decisions/actions belong in ATF. Always have, always will.

Frankly I'm shocked this forum doesn't receive more traffic, given how much people like to bitch and moan, but I would have snap moved your thread as well. As would any other mod in any other forum.

Interesting that you complain about how the mods abuse their power and try to cover stuff up, yet you feel as if you yourself are above the forum rules. Maybe if you followed them, you wouldn't find so many mods popping out to abuse their power. Just a suggestion.

Who is watching the camera in OPs house? They are slacking and the Thought Police need to be alerted.

@bobo

i have never once made that assumption in the past and realize these forums couldn't run without you guys. the time mods put in is never appreciated the way it should be b/c so many of us don't realize how much work it actually takes to keep things clean with people like me tooling out every 4seconds. i get that, but my questions in this instance are still valid b/c it is such an extreme case. i really don't wanna get banned here but it just brings up a lot of strong feelings..

@SGT

it was a mistake to post it in NVG per forum rules, but it gets the same reaction/is semantics. i have nothing against any mod except maybe MH cause he trolled me in pm then here again, pointing out a thread as if that should hurt my credibility in this thread which is pure garbage on his part.

This is pretty much what I got, I mean it's not like you made some kind of enlightening statement. You may want to check yourself out and try to understand why all this hit home for you so hard. Then figure out how to proceed, it really sounds like your displacing a bunch of pent up anger.

Fair enough. FWIW I'm familiar with the other thread, but I thought you came off well in there and hope you've been successful pulling your life together and paying back the people who trusted you.

We've always been at war with Eastasia

honestly it hits home b/c i get trolled in pretty much every thread i make (quit making shtty threads then, got it) and i've seen/felt the lynch mob in action. i'm probably a terrible poster. my skin is plenty thick but even then have become rattled at times, and if someone is not as strong willed it can have devastating effects. if people collectively can have this much effect on someone then they need to be aware of it. it just made me so sad reading through those threads knowing the end result and i would be sick to my stomach if i was a part of that.

I accept your apology.

If more posters felt like you, I doubt we'd have the troll/insult problem we do in some of the forums.

I understand the sentiment you're trying to convey, honestly. I think your heart was in the right place. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that your sentiments would not have instigated the type of trolling and mocking that you call out as inappropriate.

Short of requiring everyone in NVG (or 2p2) to be on their best behavior at all times, the unfortunate truth is that large internet forums draw some pretty immature/horrible posters.

I am with you OP. That story is really terrible and sad. The amount of people who piled on the **** load to be thrown at that chick anonymously on the internet was mindblowing and to me it has revealed one of the worst aspects of human soul that I have ever been aware of. Simply disgusting.

I have very little respect for the people who posted in those threads, included David Sklansky (I have never ever seen a public apology, a public word of sorrow, or something of that sort by him, therefore he goes in that list to me).

Not trying to be insensitive but it's pretty far fetched to place blame on 2+2 for what Brandi ultimately decided to do.

That being said, there's no excuse for the pathetic posts not only in that thread but ones we see all day on these forums. If everyone took some responsibility and reported these type of posts (instead of putting it all on the mods and admin) this would be a much better place.

Cliffs
Report posts, take some responsibility.

Agreed, but it's possible to rise above. Reddit does an amazingly good job of keeping a high signal:noise ratio. It's possible for people to come together and not regress to the lowest-common-denominator traits of 12-year-olds. I've seen it.

This topic has been brought up numerous times, and it's usually instantly mocked by the greens, blues, et al, but the mods around here can come off as quite caustic and demeaning, even if they don't mean it. They seem to feel that since they're right and others are wrong, it's okay to be prickly and defensive at even the slightest hint of criticism. If the person raising the issue isn't beyond reproach himself, then the person's opinion carries no weight and is ripe for mockery.

It's a black & white world around here. As I'm among the crazies, my post is instal-lol-worthy, I'm sure.

News: It's a privately owned forum and they do whatever the fk they want.

Any man loud talkin spends a night in the box.

You are a horrible poster, please stop starting threads.

I am willing to bet Sklansky has been muzzled from making any comments about Brandi by Mason. Mason even took away David's posting privileges after some of the big incidents.

A better move than trying to bump that thread might be questioning why one of the most popular threads in 2+2 history was deleted? That is some major censorship.

I mean Wicked Chops had this to say "Best 2+2 Thread of All-Time: The Sklansky/Hawbaker Dramabomb. It was bound to happen. Rumors swirled about some kind of Sklansky/Hawbaker relationship at last year's WSOP (watch the Brandi Hawbaker interview about it). Then it died down. Went away. Then in late February it just blew the f' up (read the 2+2 thread here), culminating in 2+2 banning any known Brandi Hawbaker associates (and the NWP crew) and Sklansky "alluding" to throwing acid on Brandi's face. This one had it all. In fact, we feel safe in saying that we may never see a poker forum thread involving a 60 year-old dude who keeps a vibrator in his glove compartment and hints at throwing acid on a hot girl's face again. Probably."

Read the stuff written on these forums or any other poker forums about female poker players.

Then think about the positives and negatives that most female poker players experience with the community (easy money if you know the rules, interest from sponsors, easy to find people interested in you, stakes, etc. for the good).

You can't talk about the negatives like they only happen to Brandi, they happen to everybody (for those that can't think of them, negatives include a breakdown of every single body part, repeated over and over in every thread about the female, jealousy leading to insults and attention from many, many people you don't want attention from).

You can't take one without the other really, look at the stuff people say about Duck or Melanie Weisner on 2p2, you can find some awesome complimentary posts, but you also find some downright terrible things said about them (and you can replace their names with pretty much any female poker players, from Annette to Vicky Coren).

Celebrities experience the same type of stuff. Maybe Brandi didn't have an agent or somebody close to her to explain to her that this stuff is really standard.

Don't blame the forum though, most sane people can see that there are plenty of idiots here and everywhere, and if your goal is to "make money and be popular" as so many seem to blindly strive towards, you're going to get a lot more haters along the way than if your goals were otherwise.

imo twoplustwo know exactly what happened during september 11

Well said Chicago. Jealousy is the worst of our base emotions. RIP Brandi.

Do you seriously have questions as to why all those threads were deleted? It sounds more like you want to resurrect something that was really sick in way too many ways to even begin to get into.

Hell, just look at the avatars.

I was expanding on the OP's view that the sickness of the Brandi incident should not be forgotten. Deleting that thread is trying to erase what happened. It should be left for all to see.

A large part of the reason it was deleted is because it makes 2+2 and Sklansky and Mason look bad. Do you think they did it to save a lot of people from having hurt feelings?

If you look at those threads there were a lot of people who were banned. Anyone who had any affiliation with N*P and some other sites were banned even if they didn't write anything negative about 2+2. People were banned for telling the truth about Sklansky. 400 pages of people saying Brandi was crazy *itch didn't get people banned. Telling the truth about 2+2 did -- and right away.

OP was talking about how people are often times relentlessly flamed, I don't think he meant to conjure up Sklanskygate.

Both men and ships live in an unstable element, are subject to subtle and powerful influences, and want to have their merits understood rather than their faults found out.

Joseph Conrad - The Mirror of the Sea