after reading this thread ,i've decided not to vote for gary johnson

How can you even say any of this with a straight face? To even imply that capitalism helped end slavery when it was the single most important factor that kept it going borders on madness. The reason that slavery ended was enough people decided that it was more important to treat human beings as human beings and not to exploit them for cheap labor. We fought the bloodiest war in our history over this and to cheapen it like this is insulting.

As for company towns helping to lift people out of poverty, that is only slightly less insane than your comment about slavery. The entire point of company towns was to enhance the profits for the company and make the employees into indentured servants.

Mason, I'd like some clarification on your position of our annual reefdawg memorial tournament and charity thread.

All we in the BBV4L community would like to do, is openly have a thread organizing the tournament and donations, in honor of our deceased friend reefdawg, who we all loved dearly.

I may have misunderstood your post which I've quoted above, but I took it to mean "no."


I've been speaking with Mat, and from what he has said, it seems as though you are willing to make an exception to the no charity rule in this case.

May we openly have the annual threads?


Thank you.

I apologize, I did not understand the reason for your post Mason. Mat has just informed me that you are indeed willing to make an exception, and we can have our annual reefdawg memorial threads. For that, I truly thank you.

I thought your post was in answer to my question, not just a general post regarding the rules, and Mat was going to PM me the answer. So things have been clarified, and I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for allowing us to hold the threads, and I truly apologize for the misunderstanding.

Thank you very much Mason, and Mat.







for reef, our dear friend

Why did England and France end slavery in the early 1800s? and why did Brazil end slavery over 20 years after we did? and why did all the other countries end slavery during this time period as well as Russia ending serfdom? I doubt that the war we fought had much to do with it.

But more important, what was it that made people all around the world realize that slavery was wrong? What changed to make people think different? Could it had been the industrial revolution and the accompanying free markets that came with it?

And what system do you advocate? Are you suggesting the countries of the world return to some other economic system that keeps people living in a state of tyranny and misery and assures that people never improve their lives.

Remember, Lenin was going to fix all of this. He made essentially the same arguments you have, and the result was the Soviet Union managed to kill 50 million, and perhaps more, of their own people. But then again, perhaps if their leaders would have been different, all else would have gone well.

Hitler and Mussolini were going to fix everything too. And Mao also did a great job. Is this what you're advocating? I for one like personal freedom and the ability to make your own choices unhindered by a government that knows better than you do. Obviously you don't, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. That's what these forums are for.

But don't call me insane. Someone like you who's willing to ignore the history of the world and all the suffering and misery that the typical person has gone through does not get my endorsement. I'm in favor of the system that has actually helped the people, and I mean all the people, who have lived under it. And as the great Milton Friedman once said:

Mason

England and France ended slavery because of societal pressures and not because of capitalism. Slavery was ended in the home islands in 1772, it took until 1832 for it to be outlawed in most of the other English territories.

England was instrumental in getting rid of slavery in a lot of other countries because of the restrictions on slavery built into their trading treaties.

Nice attempt at trying to make me a communist too, we already know you see them under every rock and behind every logo.

You also seem to completely ignore that it was regulations that stopped most of that misery and tyranny and not unrestricted capitalism. Maybe you should reread your history from reliable sources?

Please explain how free market capitalism (which caused most of the horrors of the industrial revolution) fixed itself? Or was it those pesky regulations on working conditions that did that?

Does this guy know how to wiki or what!

Mason, the United States of America specifically and the west in general got rich though massive state intervention principally not free markets ... imo.

You sound like a communist, you must like Hitler.

What a bizarre argument guys.
First of all this is not the thread for this discussion.
And Mason, I don't think anybody here wants to end capitalism and replace it with communism or whatever.
But (I'm guessing) mutant doesn't want totally unchecked and unregulated capitalism either.
You know, not everyone who likes labor laws etc. is a follower of Hitler, Lenin or Mao.

Seriously? I am the one ignoring the history of the world? Is your argument that capitalism helped the slaves when it was what created modern slavery in the first place? Southern capitalism caused the Civil War because they didn't want to give up their money and power.

I am sure all of the people bought and sold over those many generations were so glad to be helped by the system. Just like all of the people forced to live in those factory towns were grateful to have the chance to die young for little pay to help the owners out.

good solid adapting/evolving here imo.

this thread is rolling hard, hopefully no moar lame appeals for memorials

Hush you, don't be all logical - its either one extreme or the other. Common sense regulation doesn't exist.

I didn't think your post was that bad, but if it was attention whoring, you missed the mark I'm afraid.

I predict a landslide victory if Gary Johnson makes banning Mutant K12 and that Hannah person one of his first actions upon taking office.

If you want to achieve this then promote a system that keeps the poor man down, by giving big businesses the freedom to exploit them for maximum profit. It is essential to support a system that furthers the disparity gap.
- Support an education reform that gives a fixed amount of money to each child to pay for tuition. Poor children will just have to settle for the cheapest schools. Wealthy families can easily supplement tuition to send their children to the best schools. It's essential to keep the poor child dumb if you want to exploit them.
- Now do away with child labor laws. The poor kids are already dumb anyway because of the horrible schools they attend. Why should they be wasting their time studying and preparing for a bright future when the financial situation at home is more dire?
-Get rid of all the silly regulations that were meant to ensure safety and fairness, because it's really just an excessive waste in spending.

We should do all we can to help the people who basically run America. They should have as much freedom as possible to gain as much as they want. What's the life of a poor man compared to the wealth of a rich man?

Yes, you are ignoring the history of the world. Slavery existed for many thousands of years before capitalism came along. So you really could argue that capitalism stopped it!

I'm shocked:

gregorio
self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,918

Just want to say that I respect and appreciate the way Mat and Mason responded to my criticisms about Paul (reefdawg).

Bad troll is bad... capitalism has existed every since people put value on something.


Also in related news... The Nazis helped out the Jews since they wouldn't have gotten Israel as a homeland without that whole Holocaust thing

yea, what happened there?

I dont even know what you're arguing about anymore lol. I don't think you do either.

Seek help immediately.