I started out live and switched to online, I am beating 2NL, 5NL, 10NL and 25NL 6max.

I 6 table anything but 25NL where I 4-table.

Online I play 1K hands per hour approx for a winrate of about 10bb/h.
I can play 6hours per day, whenever I want, that is 5000 hands, that is 50$ on average. Which turns into 350 a week, steady income from a full-time hobby.

--- I've played live probably about 200 hours before I turned to online and below is why I might not return after having acquired too much online experience---

Now Live, 10 seats per table.

- 2 nitty regs at the table who are playing the equivalent of 2NL nitty online poker.
- 5 donks (playmoney type players)
- 2 gamblers (they just call and shove and hope to hit a pair someday).
- you.

The regs buy in for 500 (250BB)
The donks between 200 and 300

The gamblers anywhere between 100 and 300

You will get dealt about 1 hand every 2 or 3 minutes.
So that is about 40 hands per hour, which is the equivalent of roughly 5 minutes online play 6 tabling.

Each orbit at least 5 players will want to see a flop, because hey, I came to the casino from where-ever I live, I didn't come here to sit two hours and play 3 hands. Besides, I'm a poker player, I will kill it postflop, like you see on TV.

So people start raising 3BB, but for 3BB everybody wants to see a flop, so they raise 5BB, because 3 people actually fold to a 5BB raise. So, 5BB becomes your standard raise; If you actually have a hand like AK, you make it 6BB, because at 8BB, nobody is calling you any more unless they have AA.

Preflop
The blinds are 2$ but the raises are 8 to 12.
Every pot for the flop has about 60$ in it. 6$ is taken away for rake. because you know, 10% rake.

10 people = 20 hole cards, that's half the deck.
You can expect 2 Aces to be dealt on average.
Live players don't fold Ace-rag, never. In fact if they have Axs or A9+ you can almost expect them to go nuts with 10BB raises.

So you are playing live, you are holding AJ, a hand you deem well enough to play, after seeing 20 hands of rags and the oddball A9o, which you folded from the CO, and the 66 you folded from EP, and after around 50 minutes of waiting, you're thinking, I'm playing this hand, but I don't want to see a flop with 5 people when I'm holding AJ, I'll raise it up to 8BB.

So in go the 8BB from your position in the Cut-Off, the BTN Folds, the SB calls, and hey you know what, most of the limpers call as well, because YOLO, big pot.

FLOP - 5 people.
Pot is 50BB or 100$ dealer takes 10$ rake

59T
SB check, BB check, MP donk-raises 10BB, fold, action to you.

Now you are sitting there AJo in your hands looking at a 120$pot, it's the first hand you played in 30 minutes. you have two options, fold like you should, since out of these 5 players, someone will have hit and wait another 20 minutes or you can go and take a stab at the pot and c-bet like you would do online.
They will put you on JJ+ for sure ...

you decide to stab at it and make these monkeys fold, you raise 20BB aka 40$.

SB folds, BB calls, MP calls.

Pot is now 210$, dealer takes 10$ rake cause you know, 20$ rake limit, so pot is 200$, 3 players.

Turn
8

BB checks, MP bets 20BB

MP is showing obvious strength, he probably has hit trips or just made his QJ straight draw.

You look at a 59T8 board, you have AJ, a Q gives you the near nuts, but two of your Queens are dirty, Qh and Qs, you can hit an A, but villains might well have A-rag to make two pairs, the 6 has the same story as the Q's.
You are staring at a 200$ pot, an amount a decent 10NL player can make only after grinding about 20k hands aka in a time span of 2 weeks or so for decent volume players.
A pot which was build by poker monkeys who wouldn't last an hour with 3BI at the 2NL tables.

You however decide sigh and fold, you invested 38BB or 76, won zip, you refuse to become a variance addict and you wait 30 more minutes for a hand to come your way. Why oh Why did I ever think they would fold you think to yourself ...

River comes J

BB checks, MP bets 10BB

BB calls

BB shows K8, MP shows QT

MP takes a 240$ pot

BB says: I thought you were bluffing.

Somewhere across the table a guy starts shouting I had Q6!
Guy next to you, pokes you, says, I folded 59, what a pitty, what did you have?

You stare at this monkey show in amazement, vow to take all the monkeys money ...

Next hand, MP from earlier raises to 12BB aka 24$, Reg to his right calls, everybody else folds.

Flop, 2 players.
Q69
MP pushes all-in (360$) reg calls
turn, J, River T

MP shows AQ, reg shows KK
MP shows his dismay about how unlucky he just got there, reaches for his wallet and hands another 200$ to the dealer.

Reg takes the 360$, casually tips the dealer with the 6$ that once belonged to you and orders a drink.

----- and that's how live poker rolls -----

so what exactly are you trying to tell us?

Some things you have to understand about 1/2 or 2/2 casino play when you are used to playing online.

- You can't force a casino player of a hand
- there are no 3bet bluff ranges preflop! this is very important. Don't do it.
- preflop game to casino players consists of this: do I pay 10$ now to see a flop or should I wait a hand and get something better than Q7.
- Expect 5 to 6 players per flop.
- don't expect pot or half pot bets, casino players play timid post flop, they raise 10BB to a 60BB pot and consider it a huge raise.
- the flop will probably hit two players and they will see a river most likely.
- the turn and river will likely feature the same actors.
- there is no such thing as pot committed.
- I have seen players fold to a riverbet after they put 80% of their stack in a pot chasing a draw.

Do not bluff in casino's if you want to make money.
But if you do, bluff the river, and bluff big, like All-in big.

Making money playing live.

See a cheap flop in position with a hand that plays well multi-way.
take the dead money at the flop.
single out the fishes, value bet them dead, most of them are calling stations.

also ... find out for their calling treshholds, this is very important.

Always make a riverbet, never check down, a casino player who thinks he has a winning hand ALWAYS bets the river.

And leave your online smug at home ... yes you will be amazed by the donking you will see, it will make your eyes bleed, just don't get caught up in calling it out ... OMG see that guy 3Bet with 44 ... first of all the guy doesn't know what a 3bet is, nor a barrel, nor a 4bet, nor what postflop means for that matter ... They can only see the two cards in front of their face ... and frankly most of the time they can't even remember those.

Anyway if you start shouting your lingo, the two regs at the table unlike anyone else, will pick it up, and they will keep it in mind when they play you.

cliff notes
- live players are monkeys
- online and live NLHE is not the same game by far
- don't expect to be winning any money in a casino just because you play an amazing online game.

That's all :-)

If you can't beat live 1/2, I suggest you find a new hobby.

Wtf are u doing playing in a $20 rake limit cash game? This is either a horrible level, or you are just stupid enough to play in a game raked this high.

so there was a bunch of reasons to go play live


I don't get it.

this

"Wahhhh! Live player are so bad that I can't beat them!"

That makes you even worse OP.

The point is not that I can't beat live games.

The point is
A) I don't have the BR to withstand monkey casino variance (20BI -> 4000$)
B) Someone with a VPiP of 17 will play one hand in 6, so if you think about playing that style you will play 3 to 4 hands per hour
C) Online and Live are not the same game by far.

Live is concentrated on a Multiway Flop and Continuation on Turn.

Whereas Online you get the full spectrum.

Live 1/2 is easy money OP. Loads of dead money.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using 2+2 Forums

So you are telling here that live and online are different in therms of rake, bet sizing, players etc. No ****..

I still really don't see the point of this thread

Too many words, so little time.......

You just listed a bunch of reasons why live players are awful at poker and your conclusion is that this is why you probably won't return to playing live. Seriously?

All of these mistakes live players make that you've listed are easily exploitable. Try it sometime.

Board:
59T8J

and MP shows QT

WTF is this rubbish. This is BBV not live poker strat.

Lol OP, Venice was not seriously suggesting you should post this in BBV.

zzzzzzzz

Further proof that live poker is rigged, two T

Ignore the haters op, I'd love to hear several more case scenarios. With as much detail as possible.

You're right. Live sure is different from online.

Tell us another cool story, my brain is infested wit cool sotrys n i jst cntn get enoughsof thems

Maybe your assumptions about the skill levels of your opponents are under-estimated and those of your own abilities are over-estimated.

This error is reason enough not to return.

Move up where they respect your raises. 1/2 haz a lot of donks calling with all kind of crap, help plz!

You sound like a bitter loser of a kid.

You come into a poker forum and try to tell us what live poker is like? LOL