While I agree with most about this dream selling, the same goes for 'real life' endeavours. We are all sold to / educated to be good little corporate slaves paying taxes while playing the rat race 'dream'.

In the end, it is about finding your own balance according to your own values and finding stability in a reasonably enjoyable life OF YOUR CHOICE. However, you can only make an informed and stable choice once you have lived in various places and seen the pros and cons of various countries together with the income possibilities. You need to be at peace with your chosen lifestyle with its perks and pitfalls. I decided I had enough of the 100k+ rat race as a banker and now spend a low income life (20k /year) in one of the poorest / cheapest spots on this planet and have poker as a side income to support this.

For your balance, you need a girl originating from a culture teaching them to be living for her man, rather than for herself. Lots of those around on this planet, but not in the western world. Travel, and try to assemble together a situation with the best mix of what the various cultures offer, for your own benefit. If you could afford it, living in the Philippines, would be my number one choice / destination. Some are doing it on a very tight budget and you can find threads about them on 2+2. I can't, I need more comfort (my own house, etc).

Imho, living the beaten path of a solid job and a high end demanding western woman will brainwash you that you 'succeeded', but will not do it for your happiness.

GL to all

Wow, I agree with you 100%. I have not really experienced other cultures like you have. We can both agree that most women in the US are taught to marry up and will basically do whatever or whomever to get what they want. Obviously, not every woman in the US is like that but most are. No man wants that. She will not make you happy but will instead drag you into the ground. I have seen this happen with my own two eyes. I am very interested in what you have to say there.

Also, I agree on the beaten path of a solid job part too. Jobs are so competitive right now. You are stuck working 3 peoples jobs and getting paid poorly. You are sleeping less and less. Your eating habits deteriorate. Many get mixed up in drugs just to keep up until they ultimately burn out. You are right! There are many better things that you can do for your health and happiness. That comes down to doing whatever it is that makes you happy. Well said!

hahhhhhhhaa gold

This is so true. How much did Negreanu lose on High Stakes Poker? Must have been at least $2 mill.

Yea I think he lost like 2 million there. What about everything he has lost aside from that? He is not even a solid winning player for the most part. Who can he outmatch at the high stakes cash games? He gets crushed by everyone. He probably stopped playing them so his brand does not suffer. He relies on his "ambassador money" from PokerStars to get into tournaments of which he has really not even done anything special. Sure he took one down lately. Every squirrel finds a nut. All expenses paid by PokerStars. The rest of us would be broke if we approached poker the way he does. I think people would be shocked if they were able to take a look into his finances.

When 1/2 or 2/5 players play Poker, almost everyone loses because of the rake. I mean think about it. At $4 max you are paying $12 an hour net in rake. Which means an 8-hour session will cost about $100. Any way you cut it it's a negative sum game.

But when you talk about high stakes players (Buy-in of $10K+) doesn't the rake/expenses become negligible? What about $100K? Now the EV of the game of most definitely zero. So how do pros go broke? For someone to lose someone else has to win right?

Negraneau lost 2mil on HSP, so somebody would have to have won it right?

I believe this statement to be mostly true! The rake is significant and the casino is surely the biggest benefactor. However, there are still going to be a decent number of people who are net winners and a very small minority number of exceptional players who can profit significantly. (Something like 20,000-100,000/year)

I believe this statement to be mostly true as well! The rake is insignificant at this point. There are certainly winners and there is certainly money to be made in poker. You are correct that for someone to lose someone else has to win. The point that I am stressing is that as these pros keep playing these high stakes games the winnings will end up unevenly in each of the players bankrolls. Essentially, the best player will end up with most or all of the money in the long-term. Therefore, if you really want to make something significant of a poker career you simply need to be the best player or one of the best players in the world.

Exactly! Say that these pros indefinitely play in the big game on HSP. Now, Negreanu loses 2 million to better players. If they all keep playing in the same game these better players will ultimately lose the money back to the best player. After time, the best player will end up with most or all of the money. And at those stakes the pros do not have much choice as far as playing against worse players goes. There are only so many fish that are able to continually put up those sums of money. Basically, they are stuck playing against the best players in the world.

But then for all the people that make a "comfortable living" off of Poker, where does the money come from? Somebody has to work for that money (usually 40 hours a week) and lose it to these "pros", minus the rake. Don't tell me someone can afford to lose $50,000 a year consistently of his after-tax dollars without either quitting the game or becoming a broke degenerate in debt. Unless that fish is loaded is a $500 buy-in is nothing more than a coin-for-fun for that fish.

I feel that the pros that make a "comfortable living" off of poker at the smaller stakes are fed by three groups of people. Something like 20% are gambling degenerates and failing "pros" who are on their way to losing everything they have. Something like 20% are successful entrepreneurs, doctors, and lawyers who have a lot of money to lose month after month. Something like 60% are your engineers, average businessmen, and other career people who are consistently losing at a small rate.

I want to be clear that I am starting to think that poker is not a realistic path to make a comfortable living as I feel you are thinking that I am in fact saying that it is. I am starting to believe that there are much better avenues to make a comfortable living with increased chances.

You do realise someone wins every tournament, don't you?

LOL @ the 2 idiots advocating moving to a 3rd world country and banging some brown skinned broad who speaka no English.

Prostitute: I'm safe, huh. No HIV.
Danny Archer: Ja, ja. I've heard that one before.

This is true but for that to happen many others have to lose their ass through traveling/other expenses, tournament fees, and losing the tournament, etc.

Again, it is possible to make money playing poker. However, there are opportunities with better chances of success. That being said, it may still be worth it for many to try.

In hockey, there are tons of people who never make the NHL and never make a dollar. They simply give it their best for the love of the game.

lolled after the first sentence. 95% of people reading 2+2 are doing better than 99% of worlds population. Our life is not hard.

Sure, my life could be better. It always could, right? I could like my job more or I could have a longer vacation or a bigger TV. But these things dont mean my life is hard. I'm regular dude but I feel blessed to have what I have (which is not much). Being grateful for what you have and not envying someone else who has more is a way to find happines (Just my own opinion).

And remember, being grateful for things you have doesnt mean you cant pursue more and try to build yourself even a better life (Some people I've talked to seem to think being grateful means you dont want more)

Sounds like you're a really stand up guy. Would it really make you happy to slave a girl to live for you and not for themselves? So you are basically saying you would find happiness by going to a 3rd world country and making some poor girl your personal servant/slave?

You disgust me.

This is simply not true. Ever heard of game selection?

I for one don't think life is hard but I do think it's completely pointless, burdened by the monotony, soul crushing, tedious, rigmarole, empty life that is being pissed away underneath fluorescent tubes, stuck in a office cubical for most of the day. Hard? No! Why do it? I have absolutely no idea. The pursuit of money as worn off on me, I no longer care about great wealth or trying to obtain it, work, eat and sleep is about all I do now and it is easy, but its not enjoyable nor fulfilling.

This I agree 100%. I'm happy that I dont hate my job. It's not the greatest job but not the worst either. But I still sometimes do feel it's a bit empty and pointless. I'm happy for this, but I'm still trying to make it better.

no one cares archii now **** off with your dribble.

I will say it again. The fact of the matter is that life is hard. I do not know who your family is to have made your life so easy. Also, your statement is certainly correct and I do not debate that. The fact of the matter is that it is all relative.

Again, it is all relative. My definition of significant is obviously held to a higher standard than yours. I am talking making it worthwhile to pursue poker over other avenues. You can make 20,000 a year serving coffee. You can make 50,000 a year working a desk job in a company. You can make 100,000 a year working your way up the ladder and becoming a manager in a company. In addition, your chances of doing this are much better. As, long as you are not laid off or fired the money is guaranteed income. Why chose poker over those paths other than an addiction or an extreme love for the game? You wouldn't! If you want to make more than that you need to be one of the better players in the world.

Thanks for your contribution, it's greatly appreciated.

Interesting thread. Going to spend some time going back to read through.

While your statement has a point, 99% is an overstatement. Maybe 80%?

Let's break this down. In my country (Canada), somebody who is considered "poor" will most likely:

-Eat 3 meals a day
-Have clothes on their back
-Have a roof over their head
-Have access to unlimited clean water
-Have a bed to sleep on
-Have a TV (in most cases)
-Maybe have a computer and probably have access to internet somehow
-Have security of life when leaving home.
-Have some pocket money to use discretionarily.

Now 95% (or more) of the people on BBV have all of the above, full access to a computer and internet and most likely have some gambling money.

Life can always be better. It is not always about the money. I know some friends that studied their asses off to obtain a degree and then worked 60-80 hours a week for 2-3 years. They now have a very high paying high status job, which still requires a fair number of hours. They sacrifices their youths basically.

Now was it worth it? Maybe. What is money anyways? When you're playing at stakes where expenses for food and clothes become negligible and living expenses (if kept to a minimum) can also be negligible, I would say life is pretty damn easy.

What is money anyways? What would you do with a million dollars? Most people would say INVEST it. Wow. So with a million dollars would be lacking even more satisfaction and ego that you would INVEST it to make more? At the end of the day, money is imaginary and a mere universally accepted unit of value. The annual interest payable to the bankers of the world is currently higher than the value of all the assets (material and labor) in the entire world combined!

To add a final note: If money really had a value necessary for survival, BBV'er would not voluntary ship $10, $20, or whatever to someone for holding his own poop.




The US has the highest "best". But I guarantee that most people in the US reading this will never come close to sniffing that "best" with respect to how many Canadians are close to it. Only a small fraction of a percent of Americans have that kind of wealth. The distribution is very skewed.

STFU pedoboy, go EAD