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To steal or not to steal? To steal or not to steal?

11-09-2012 , 03:54 AM
I'm curious about the results of hyper-aggressive tendencies in loose passive games. If its folded to us in the cut-off and we're holding 76s are we always opening and if so why?
To steal or not to steal? Quote
11-09-2012 , 04:41 AM
that is the question
To steal or not to steal? Quote
11-09-2012 , 04:46 AM
why u want be hyper agressive in a loose game? that seems to be a recepty for disaster.
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11-09-2012 , 08:23 AM
You gotta know thats not how you spell recipe
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11-09-2012 , 09:18 AM
are you really asking how to play just 1 hand or does 76s represent something and if so what?
To steal or not to steal? Quote
11-09-2012 , 09:55 AM
if it gets folded to you in the CO its probably not a loose passive game
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11-09-2012 , 03:48 PM
If it's folded to you in the cutoff in a loose passive game, the more important information pieces we need here are 1) How do the blinds play? ie. never folding BB, sometimes folding, usually folding? Are the blinds good post flop players? Do they play a little tricky and/or check-raisy on the flop? 2) How aware is the button? Is he TAG and knowledgable about your wider than usual range here?

I am more inclined to play this hand than most "solid, TAG players" IMO, and I do well with them, but this is largely due to my observations at the table/knowledge of my opponents in the blinds and OTB. I often am forced to fold this even if conditions are slightly favorable due to my own table image in the last few orbitz... etc, etc. I'm no hero, for sure, but I do have a solid win rate playing live 20-40 & 40-80 Borgata Hold em.

All that said, in a vacuum, playing 20-40 live full ring limit HE, I am folding this hand in the cutoff if the blinds and button are unknown. Too many calling stations in the blinds in these games and the hand has zero SD value so position is not AS helpful as normal.

Hope this helps.
To steal or not to steal? Quote
11-09-2012 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty
if it gets folded to you in the CO its probably not a loose passive game
Also, this!
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11-09-2012 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty
if it gets folded to you in the CO its probably not a loose passive game
Well, I don't know about that. In a passive game where the blinds can chop, with no drop, I see a modest number of chops. Also, if you are known to allow a chop, then raising with ATC from the CO, or BTN is seldom challenged - as long as it isn't overused.
To steal or not to steal? Quote
11-09-2012 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by double edged sword
If it's folded to you in the cutoff in a loose passive game, the more important information pieces we need here are 1) How do the blinds play? ie. never folding BB, sometimes folding, usually folding? Are the blinds good post flop players? Do they play a little tricky and/or check-raisy on the flop? 2) How aware is the button? Is he TAG and knowledgable about your wider than usual range here?

I am more inclined to play this hand than most "solid, TAG players" IMO, and I do well with them, but this is largely due to my observations at the table/knowledge of my opponents in the blinds and OTB. I often am forced to fold this even if conditions are slightly favorable due to my own table image in the last few orbitz... etc, etc. I'm no hero, for sure, but I do have a solid win rate playing live 20-40 & 40-80 Borgata Hold em.

All that said, in a vacuum, playing 20-40 live full ring limit HE, I am folding this hand in the cutoff if the blinds and button are unknown. Too many calling stations in the blinds in these games and the hand has zero SD value so position is not AS helpful as normal.

Hope this helps.
It does, thnx.
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11-09-2012 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty
if it gets folded to you in the CO its probably not a loose passive game
I was totally waiting for this response I still believe it does tho, we just don't have the tendency to remember hands like these of seemingly insignificance. I appreciate all the feedback.
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11-10-2012 , 10:48 PM
calling or raising depends on your plan for after the flop hits. What is your plan for after the flop hits?

what you plan for after the flop hitting if often predicated on how good/often the Button plays. how often the blinds play.
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11-11-2012 , 06:39 AM
In the frame of the question I'm planning on keeping the aggression. The button, sb, and bb are all unknowns. So I raise PF, button CC, sb folds, bb calls. Flop comes down AdJd5s. We have 76ss. BB checks, what's the plan?
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11-11-2012 , 06:47 AM
bet
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11-11-2012 , 09:33 PM
I check
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11-12-2012 , 04:25 AM
I bet, btn calls, bb folds. Turn is the 4d. What now?
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11-13-2012 , 02:26 PM
Unfortunately you have to check-fold IMO. I know it sucks, but that's poker sometimes. You are OOP and have 6 "clean outs" to a straight that may already be dead to the flush, along with 2 more "outs" that bring a one card diamond flush that you don't have.

I understand that you're getting 5.25 to 1 here... but with the heavily discounted outs with drawing dead potential, you simply must give up on the turn.

WOMP WOMP
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11-13-2012 , 08:16 PM
no we don't - bet again
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11-13-2012 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by double edged sword
Unfortunately you have to check-fold IMO. I know it sucks, but that's poker sometimes. You are OOP and have 6 "clean outs" to a straight that may already be dead to the flush, along with 2 more "outs" that bring a one card diamond flush that you don't have.

I understand that you're getting 5.25 to 1 here... but with the heavily discounted outs with drawing dead potential, you simply must give up on the turn.

WOMP WOMP
what are you talking about? why do we assume that he has a flush a significant portion of the time? this seems like an awesome card for us to barrel - it's not a disaster if we get called b/c we have some outs, but we want him to fold, and we can't get him to fold if we don't bet.
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11-13-2012 , 10:15 PM
I bet, once again buttons calls. River is the 2d. This was the decision I was most torn over and the one in which I decided to post the hand. Thnx again for the feedback guys!
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11-13-2012 , 10:45 PM
why are you torn over it? you have seven high and he might fold something in a big pot. bet.
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11-14-2012 , 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loopshot1
I bet, once again buttons calls. River is the 2d. This was the decision I was most torn over and the one in which I decided to post the hand. Thnx again for the feedback guys!
If he'd had a D you'd heard from him by now. His range is weighted towards busted bwy draws and A/J combos all of which you're miles behind but that fourth D makes your hand in a way Because your FE is massive given his ccing range on the previous streets.
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11-14-2012 , 04:39 AM
Also I wouldn't be opening this pf in any other position than otb with a station on my immediate left - especially if post flop is going to be super uncomfortable oop... imo
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11-15-2012 , 02:57 PM
I don't think this is such an easy decision for an easy turn bet. Keep in mind, this is a live hold 'em game with a button opponent who cold called our raise pre flop and called the flop as well. This screams calling station. The chances of him folding his hand now are not all that large IMO. And with the passive line he's taken in the hand, it's not unusual for this turn card to check through.
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11-16-2012 , 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBabar
why are you torn over it? you have seven high and he might fold something in a big pot. bet.
Villain called flop & turn on AJ5-4 board.
Shouldn't his range here be weighed heavily towards made pairs (~A2-A9, J7-KJ suited & os) that he'll never fold?
We can fold out (KT,KQ,QT suited & os) but it seems this is a very small part of his range compared to the pairs.

Is this river (6BB's) really worth a 3rd barrel given his range?
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