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situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best

06-25-2008 , 01:30 PM
8/16 live. game is loose passive preflop and tight/average postflop. hero's image is extremely tight. ("do you ever play a hand? this guy never plays a hand!") 2 limpers. hero limps in CO with 66 button folds, sb calls and bb checks.

5 to the flop (5sb): K K 6

4 checks. action on hero. do you a) bet to get the most out of a king or b)give a free card to those who are drawing near dead.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-25-2008 , 01:36 PM
Bet!

Also, this probably belongs in small stakes

Edit: Bet for all the normal reasons. If they have nothing they're very unlikely to improve on the turn, and if they do, they still won't give a ton of action, fearing a King from you.

But you give up a TON if someone is slow-playing a King. You lose 1-2 SB on the flop, and a likely c/r (where you can 3-bet) on the turn.

Last edited by DeuceKicker; 06-25-2008 at 01:39 PM. Reason: slowplay = miniscule potential upside, huge potential downside
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-25-2008 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Also, this probably belongs in small stakes
yeah. but i posted it here because mid is level that i play the most and the forum that i participate in the most. what makes the hand interesting to me is that it highlights a difference between a typical high-mid/shorthanded/online game and a live limpfest. i've been conditioned by the games i play the most (2 or 3 to a flop, always for a raise) to never slowplay postflop- because no one can possibly give me credit when the game is such that i openraise wide preflop and CB 100% of the time (which i do because there is a reasonable chance i will take the pot down w/o showdown either a)preflop or b)postflop). but in a loose-passive preflop game it's different. no one expects a "tight" player to bluff in this game, and further, everyone legitimatedly suspects a big hand- because 5 people saw the flop. so people are less likely to peel or bluff raise with 2 broadway cards than they are online HU. so the "i'm betting a lot of bad hands so i'm going to get paid by betting my good hands" logic isn't really applicable in a game like this.

as deuce suggested, it's more about how much i'm giving up by checking against a king, compared to how much i'm gaining from unsophisticated players by letting them catch a draw or pair on the turn.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-25-2008 , 02:19 PM
I see what you are saying, but I think that even if you played this hand in a total vacuum you should still bet here. The problem with slowplaying in this spot is that there are very few good second-best hand for your opponent to make. A turned draw might still fold (getting only 3.5:1), a turned lower pair isn't going to give you much action, and any PP that catches on the turn is more likely to beat you than pay you off. There just aren't enough scenarios where giving a free card allows to win a bit pot - certainly not enough to outweigh the value you could lose if someone is slowplaying a big K.

Now, if the board where 448 double-suited and you have 88, then there are a lot more arguments for checking behind.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-25-2008 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
The problem with slowplaying in this spot is that there are very few good second-best hand for your opponent to make. A turned draw might still fold (getting only 3.5:1), a turned lower pair isn't going to give you much action, and any PP that catches on the turn is more likely to beat you than pay you off. There just aren't enough scenarios where giving a free card allows to win a bit pot - certainly not enough to outweigh the value you could lose if someone is slowplaying a big K.
hmmm. maybe. but say a jack comes. i think a guy who holds a jack is probably putting in a bet on the turn. same for a guy with QT or AT or a turned flush draw. remember that these aren't disciplined, smart players. getting only 3.5:1 is probably not going to discourage all of them. they can fold when they have nothing, but it's a lot to ask of them to fold when they have something, just because i might have something better. also, someone might easily bluff on the turn if a low card comes. i'm not sure that checking is better, but i think it's closer than you think.

Quote:
Now, if the board where 448 double-suited and you have 88, then there are a lot more arguments for checking behind.
true...but i think people are also more likely to peel with overcards on this board, because no one believes that i have a 4 in the CO.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-25-2008 , 02:32 PM
just bet that ****. it isn't close. I also raise preflop a lot, especially if the blinds can fold and especially with your image.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-26-2008 , 06:39 AM
Bet the flop man... you're in position, it looks like a positional bet anyway, and you're missing a lot of value from a King. If you check the flop behind, then raise a blank turn, it looks exactly like what it is, a monster... Betting every street's the way to go.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-26-2008 , 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by willie24
8/16 live. game is loose passive preflop and tight/average postflop. hero's image is extremely tight. ("do you ever play a hand? this guy never plays a hand!") 2 limpers. hero limps in CO with 66 button folds, sb calls and bb checks.

5 to the flop (5sb): K K 6

4 checks. action on hero. do you a) bet to get the most out of a king or b)give a free card to those who are drawing near dead.
1st lesson of low limit hold em-They always call the flop.

2nd lesson of low limit hold'em-An underfull is not the immortal nuts.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-26-2008 , 01:16 PM
Bet and Raise
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote
06-27-2008 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
Bet and Raise
Obviously bet this flop, but I don't necesarily know if I'm 3-balling after somebody raises me. Maybe it's best tho, because waiting to the turn to raise is often indicative of a monster. From the sounds of it tho, George will give you some action if he has a K, so maybe waiting to raise the turn would be best if he's the guy that raises your flop bet.
situation where an elementary transparent slowplay might be best Quote

      
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