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Semi bluff in BVB. Semi bluff in BVB.

12-10-2019 , 11:10 PM
The SB is an average Taggish reg. I suspect he is two barrelling often. He sees me as a TAG. We haven't tangled in BVB often so not much of a history.

SB opens and I call

4hTd5s....He bets and I call.

4hTd5sQd...He bets....Which of these are you raising with?

J9
J8
67
68

If the turn was a rainbow would this make you more likely to raise since it will look less like you have a picked up draw?
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote
12-11-2019 , 07:30 PM
I play bad especially 3 handed but I'm only raising J9 and 76 at some frequency I'm not sure on.

BvB I'd raise 76 on flop solid % fyi but I play bad.

Turn being rainbow would just change my frequency % which involves too much meta of:

1). HERO game history vs villain this session and lifetime

2). HERO perceived image by villain

3). Villain play style, tendencies of how villain reacts to aggression postflop even if not BvB.

Ex: Vs delay raise on turn and/or river.

Additionally, I like to create a meta BvB via aggression and/or non-aggression where villain starts requiring to adjust gears especially if game is 3 or 4 handed.

Last edited by maka2184; 12-11-2019 at 07:37 PM.
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote
12-12-2019 , 03:19 AM
I think always raising with open enders and never raising with gutshots is close enough to optimal that it's not worth the time figuring out the exact frequencies. it would be a very small mistake at most and the chances of someone noticing and being able to exploit it to any meaningful degree is close to nil. it should be rare that you'd have a read on someone strong enough that they call too much to justify raising open enders or fold too much to justify raising gutshots.

for the flush draw board your equity when called is worse with the straight draws, and he'll expect a higher bluff frequency because your bluffs should have more equity when called (allowing you to bluff at higher frequencies). the solver would probably include some open enders but much more flush draws, and leaning heavily towards the ones with high equity but low showdown value. ie: A6ss would probably just be call/call but 76ss would raise.

that showdown aspect doesn't really apply to the non flush draw board because none of them really have showdown value but I guess if you had KJ in the first example, yea, it would possibly be a call for that reason - with the hopes that he has something like J8 or J9 and then doesn't fire a third barrel.
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote
12-14-2019 , 06:55 AM
These days live, usually when TAGs barrel both the flop and turn on a board like that, they have something -- that is, either a decent draw or a hand they're going to call down if raised.

The guy knows it's BvB, he knows you could have a huge range, and he knows you called the flop, so I think he's check/folding if he has air at that point, and check/calling something he wants to call down but not get raised.

The problem with raising jack high or worse is that you're going to have to make a decision on firing another bullet on the river if you don't make something. And if you don't, you may end up losing to AdXd or KT, or J9 if he calls and it goes check/check on river.

I see what you're going for there, but I'm probably just calling turn in most of these cases.

If you're looking to steal from a guy you think is overbarreling BvB, you can just raise a board you think he probably missed on the flop and barrel turn, and you'll get a lot of folds, including ace high.
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote
12-14-2019 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
These days live, usually when TAGs barrel both the flop and turn on a board like that, they have something -- that is, either a decent draw or a hand they're going to call down if raised.

The guy knows it's BvB, he knows you could have a huge range, and he knows you called the flop, so I think he's check/folding if he has air at that point, and check/calling something he wants to call down but not get raised.

The problem with raising jack high or worse is that you're going to have to make a decision on firing another bullet on the river if you don't make something. And if you don't, you may end up losing to AdXd or KT, or J9 if he calls and it goes check/check on river.

I see what you're going for there, but I'm probably just calling turn in most of these cases.

If you're looking to steal from a guy you think is overbarreling BvB, you can just raise a board you think he probably missed on the flop and barrel turn, and you'll get a lot of folds, including ace high.
I feel like a TAG will bet again with air at least sometimes given this turn card and knowing I have a wide peeling range on this flop. We need to have some bluffs in our turn raising range and I think this is a good turn card for us.

How often are you guy's barrelling turns like this with air? I will give up against the more showdown types and bet again against the wide flop peelers who will fold.

I struggle with knowing when to give up on the bluff on the river. I typically just fire the last bullet if I'm at the bottom of my bluff range. I'll fire again at all perceptually scary river cards.

I highly doubt he will fold a hand like KT if I bet the river but he will fold J9. The river will need to be scary for him to fold A high.

I do attack some flops but this is not one of them. I peel a ton here and there is very little if any fold equity.
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote
12-14-2019 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
I feel like a TAG will bet again with air at least sometimes given this turn card and knowing I have a wide peeling range on this flop. We need to have some bluffs in our turn raising range and I think this is a good turn card for us.

How often are you guy's barrelling turns like this with air? I will give up against the more showdown types and bet again against the wide flop peelers who will fold.

I struggle with knowing when to give up on the bluff on the river. I typically just fire the last bullet if I'm at the bottom of my bluff range. I'll fire again at all perceptually scary river cards.

I highly doubt he will fold a hand like KT if I bet the river but he will fold J9. The river will need to be scary for him to fold A high.

I do attack some flops but this is not one of them. I peel a ton here and there is very little if any fold equity.
DonJuan was kind enough to inform me some info unless he was trolling.

Will wait to disclose info received. Only exception is DonJuan approves I can post it or I get angry at the market and/or year end bonus during rest of 2019.

Sneak peak is DonJuan definitely had an X% of hands being raised on flop based on OP inquiry I'm guessing based on his Dream Machine + his analysis.


I'm still hoping experts like OntheRail15, Bicycyclekick, DonJuan, Ninawilliams (ONE TIME), etc willing to comment on mongidig OP.

Last edited by maka2184; 12-14-2019 at 06:32 PM.
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote
12-15-2019 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
These days live, usually when TAGs barrel both the flop and turn on a board like that, they have something -- that is, either a decent draw or a hand they're going to call down if raised.

The guy knows it's BvB, he knows you could have a huge range, and he knows you called the flop, so I think he's check/folding if he has air at that point, and check/calling something he wants to call down but not get raised.

The problem with raising jack high or worse is that you're going to have to make a decision on firing another bullet on the river if you don't make something. And if you don't, you may end up losing to AdXd or KT, or J9 if he calls and it goes check/check on river.

I see what you're going for there, but I'm probably just calling turn in most of these cases.

If you're looking to steal from a guy you think is overbarreling BvB, you can just raise a board you think he probably missed on the flop and barrel turn, and you'll get a lot of folds, including ace high.
if that actually is your read, then what do you - fold bottom pair to the second barrel? he for sure bets again with straight draws (some of which fold to the raise immediately, some call and fold the river unimproved). he also should be folding some pairs to the raise (hands like 66-99).


there are tags hat play in a way where you'd never want to raise as a bluff here, but there're a lot of others where raising is actually even better than it would be against a GTO bot. imagine if he had a similar read on you here - that you always have the goods when you raise in this spot. suddenly there's a good chance he folds a weak board pair, which makes your turn raise with open enders enormously profitable. it's really not that uncommon. I see people folding to single bets all the time in these types of games, you just have to be mindful about whose doing what.

Last edited by Abbaddabba; 12-15-2019 at 10:18 PM.
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote
12-18-2019 , 10:11 PM
Bored / procrastination.

Really wish an expert such as OntheRail15 / DeathDonkey / Bicyclekick / Schneids / DonJuan would comment but guess we need to pay for coaching for that?

FYI think flop should be raised X% of time based on Drean Machine / GTO vs TAG.

Additionally as played Y% of hands indicated by OP should be raised on turn based on Dream Machine vs TAG.

I guess too dependent on Meta vs opponent SB vs BB where no correct answer?
Semi bluff in BVB. Quote

      
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