Long time reader of 2+2,

Name is Alan

I was in Vegas during the WSOP and had some success at the B 15/30. I've dabbled here and there with limit in the past, but I've mainly built my bankroll playing no-limit (2/5 and 3/5 nl).

I've been on a limit binge for the past couple of weeks:
4-5 days a week for the past couple of weeks

I've been playing mostly at commerce and HG. 20/40 has become my main game, and I've been taking some shots at 40/80.

My roll is ~23k

I posted this at the beginning of summer. Since then I've accumulated about 400+ hours of 20/40 and 40/80 play winning at ~$70/hr. (75% at 20 25% at 40) I know this is no where near sustainable, but I feel I could make this work at around 35 ish.

I will finish my first two quarters of grad school and will be putting that off for awhile. I officially finish school in early December. Any advice on making the transition to full time 20/40 plus move up to 40/80?

Thanks to all the 2+2 ers that I've met at various casinos (Jesse, Frond, Gangster)

Amazingly incoherent post from somebody supposedly finishing school/grad school. Actually can't tell which.

Good luck.

Read Jesse's blog and decide for yourself if this is really the route best suited for you and your live EV.

This seemed somewhat coherent when i was writing it on my iphone. Sorry folks.

I think it's reasonably coherent, but I already know your whole story so I could be biased. I could also be arrogant, but I think I'm likely one of your best sources of info. Drop me an email and I'd be happy to answer anything and also put you in touch with other helpful people.

It is extremely difficult to move up from live 20 with no other income and reasonable expenses is all I'll share here

Yeah, seems tough. Even if you grind 1500 hrs in a year winning $40/hr, over one year you make $60k, $40k after taxes, and maybe only 10k after living expenses. It only takes a real small run bad at 40/80 to wipe out the extra 10k you made in a year at the 20, and send you back down.

And this assumes all of the above is true, that you were able to play enough hours, earn at that rate, and no unexpected life expenses came about. God forbid you get in a car accident or go to jail or something...

a pointer to the blog please ?

Also, what is average number of hands / hour in a full ring live game ? Around 45 ?

At commerce? Lol. 38 with an outstanding dealer. If you're not at the friendliest you can get up to 44ish in a high limit game where everyone knows what they're doing.

I use 40 as an estimate.

Not supposed to pimp my blog here but googling such words as "jesse8888" and "poker" generally will find it.

Or a PM would have done wonders...

I would say go for it on this limited info. I would say don't go for it if you have a family or you can't get back to grad school/financial stability if things don't work out.

Notes from a retired pro (who still craves the game obviously)

OP, rest assured playing full time can be great. The money, the free time and the general ridiculousness of playing poker for a living all contribute to a life that is both independent and at times, intellectually satisfying.

BUT (and this is a huge but) the downsides are tremendous and won't be felt for some time. You'll lose friends. Period. You'll come to hate people, or at least certain people. You'll experience emotional highs and lows that really shouldn't be inflicted on anyone and you'll be constantly doubting your future and personal fulfillment aspirations.

You know that your here-to-date return rate is unsustainable. And it is. And this is good to be aware of. But you may not have taken a bad run yet. As others have mentioned, a bad run at 40-80 can knock you back 10k in a few days. The question then is, are you strong enough (and if you're not, there's nothing to be ashamed of) to handle the bad times of which there will be plenty.

20/40 is a good game nation-wide. Sure there are casinos and times that are more profitable than others but for the most part, a solid player can make a good income. However, have you taken into account the unforseen expenses? I know personally that the 2hr commute to AC from where I live, Brooklyn, costs alone around 50$ round trip. This may not sound like much but going to the casino 40 weeks a year is 2K, or 3.5% of the income of someone playing 2000 hours at 35/hour. Couple this with hotel expenses, food and other costs associated with the gambling life style and you can amass a pretty big weekly spend if you're not careful.

You can forget about your appreciation for money. Poker players have a very warped view of how much money is actually at stake on any given day and I've seen many talented players go broke through mismanaging their funds.

You put yourself at serious risk for burn out, which along with some other factors ultimately led me to quit. The people you are going to spend much of your time with may not be people you enjoy at all. In most offices, your colleagues eventually turn into friends or at least civil aquantances. At the poker table on the other hand, you're all after the same goal - each others money. This leads to a serious distrust of people and can break previously strong friendships. On that note, if you do decide to pursue poker professionally, I highly recommend you find someone you can call a friend to discuss poker strategy and pitfalls with and who does not play with you regularly.

For me at least, poker didn't fulfill any social obligations I felt as a member of society. You're not actively contributing to the economy, science, education or civil services. Poker exists within a tiny insular world. This may not be a factor in your decision but to me it was highly unsettling that I was spending my time doing something that benefited no one but myself. I decided that I didn't want someone at my funeral doing a eulogy exclaiming 'Josh was a good poker player, he once check-raised me and I nearly crapped my pants.' If that's all I left to this world, I'd be extremely disappointed with myself.


So. In sum. Poker can be great and it's good that you're in grad school. But if you're not thinking about what you want to do after and are resolved to play poker professionally (which takes huge time commitments both at and away from the table) you should really think about this from both monetary and altruistic standpoints.

I hope that helped. And apologize for the length.

lol ouch! Jesse how does it feel people use your story to scare people straight?

seriously though OP, give it a go, or don't, I don't care. You didn't really give us a ton to work with. You seem fairly green, fairly under-rolled, but not so much so that itd be a foolhardy venture.

Second Lol: "monetary and altruistic standpoints". WTF are people still making this garbage argument about poker not "contributing" to society? Pick up an econ textbook sometime or alternately ponder for a moment what a ****ing job is. (hint: its not a charitable contribution, its a job ffs)

True, a job is not a charitable contribution...but this is different than saying that a job doesn't contribute to society. Most jobs do. Poker really doesn't, which isn't saying that a person who plays poker for a living is making a bad choice.

There are a number of ways that poker contributes to society:
- Jobs directly related (dealers, waitresses, maintenance, Floor managers, etc.)
- Indirectly recycling money to lower paying professions (the money re-enters the economy)
- Taxes paid by all of the above, plus those poker players who declare
- The entertainment value that high profile events on TV provide (also jobs related to the production of the shows) . Similar to any sporting event. Does baseball contribute to society?
- The publishing industry.
- The entertainment value that cardrooms provide to people who enjoy playing poker (similar to bowling alleys, poolrooms, etc. except that poker rooms need players to provide a game).

In the sense of overall creation of value, like an architect leaves buildings behind, or an engineer designs bridges, or a computer programmer (like I was) produces systems that enable businesses to run smoothly - poker players don't add anything to society. But to say that poker doesn't contribute to society is not a fair statement.

All of this is true. Thanks.

My experience is direct contradiction to this. I have lost a couple of friends since I went pro; but for a specific reason that had absolutely nothing to do with poker.

For the most part my friends, old and new, have been both fascinated by and supportive of my current career.

Agree with everything JKam said. Especially the part about BRM. Play 20 and maybe get a part time job. $23K is nothing in 40/80 and that can go dust in less than a month. While its very easy to lose $4-5k a week in 40 is very hard to lose $3-4k a week in 20. Hopefully your an experienced enough player to realize why. (Variance, better players). Personally if I had just stayed at 20 I would have been fine. Think with your brain and not your **** and realize that it's about staying in the action. GL.

I lost 15k in 3 days playing the 40 game before.

Thanks for all the responses!

Hope to post again with positive results.

Why don't you just do what you want without the approval or disapproval of people you don't know? I would hope you have a better understanding of the game and what you're capable of as opposed to us. Can't you tell if your win rate is a product of good play or just running well? No one can ultimately tell you what to do so stop wasting your time asking questions.

I knew this thread sounded familiar... Yea just go pro. you already have a long term backup plan in the girlfriend in med school. Obamacare gravy train is going to be one hot ticket imo.

Yea! Nice meeting you yesterday. I'll drop by the casino one these nights.

Put it in your profile, too!

Edit: Good luck, OP, you seem like a nice guy!