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Possible Fur Coat Hand

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09-13-2010 , 11:06 AM

Grease

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,461

Pretty good East Coast 40 game. I discussed this hand a little with some players whom I respect greatly and there was a good discussion but I wanted to see what you all thought of it.

There are two big fish keeping the game going, only one is involved in this hand.

A pretty tight, fairly passive player raises UTG, bad spazzy fish CC's in the HJ, button calls and I call in the BB with 33.

Flop is 663r.

I check, PFR bets, spaz raises, button folds and I 3-bet. All call.

Turn: 4 (puts up a FD)

I bet, PFR raises, fish calls, I 3-bet, PFR sits back quickly and genuinely seems surprised. He calls, and the fish folds after much fanfare.

River: K

B/F or B/C?

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09-13-2010 , 11:49 AM

MacGuyV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,298

Seems like you had to be there. I don't know how confident you are in your read. Like I can fold against some players, but I don't think "some players" would raise my turn bet after I check/3bet a paired board.

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09-13-2010 , 12:16 PM

3rdCheckRaise

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,944

B\F is just ridiculous. Bet call.

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09-13-2010 , 12:34 PM

AlanBostick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,899

Definitely bet. Definitely call a raise.

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09-13-2010 , 12:38 PM

DontLimitMyHoldem

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 288

WTF is this ......bet/call.....don't ever fold here if you have the HH correct

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09-13-2010 , 12:53 PM

holmfries

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,394

I don't get it...why would we ever fold?

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09-13-2010 , 12:55 PM

Grease

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,461

Haha this is what they said. I don't think I could ever B/F here and I guess it is because folding would be mildly ludicrous.

I didn't fold (he also didn't raise; he had AA.)

It just struck me in the heat of the moment that if he raises he would likely have KK but I'm not good (or bad) enough to fold.

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09-13-2010 , 01:42 PM

DontLimitMyHoldem

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 288

It does suck when we've made it clear that we have a monster and they are beat, and they accept it and just call, then raise the next street. It's burning $ to fold though with the size of the pot and the strength of your hand coupled with the amount of times you are going to be in this spot.

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09-13-2010 , 02:11 PM

AlanBostick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,899

I hate the "amount of times you are going to be in this spot" argument. For all that there are many situations that are standard and common, there are lots and lots of idiosyncratic and peculiar situations we find ourselves in, and we'd be losing a lot if we made the wrong move in all of them, or even half.

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09-13-2010 , 03:55 PM

#10

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanBostick

there are lots and lots of idiosyncratic and peculiar situations we find ourselves in, and we'd be losing a lot if we made the wrong move in all of them, or even half.

this is a very good point. Many times, I have an internal debate with myself before posting one those situations - is it worth posting - "because it's so rare and I better work on honing my skills of dealing with standard stuff because that's where most of money is made and lost". Looks like I will start posting more of these from now on, bare with me....

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09-13-2010 , 06:01 PM

#11

p4594spa

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 594

Not only could I not fold this, I can't think of what the PFR has that beats me unless he is a total idiot. ie., he doesn't 3-bet KK, OR he open raises with 75 or 52, 44, or other stuff like that

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09-13-2010 , 06:48 PM

#12

DontLimitMyHoldem

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 288

Quote:

Originally Posted by p4594spa

Not only could I not fold this, I can't think of what the PFR has that beats me unless he is a total idiot. ie., he doesn't 3-bet KK, OR he open raises with 75 or 52, 44, or other stuff like that

75 and 52 don't beat us....

the "spot argument" refers to the times we are going to hit a set with our hand and not getting run off it when we do...I'm not saying be unreasonable and b/c here is not incorrect on the river at all....I'd 3bet sometimes also because A6s might not be able to resist popping the river

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09-13-2010 , 07:24 PM

#13

HOWMANY

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,355

i understand that hippies love to get all up in arms about things and as much as im against future serial killers gluing kittens eyelids together, i really like furcoats, a woman in a furcoat is the sexiest thing a fully clothed woman could wear imo so i could never really support peta

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09-13-2010 , 09:12 PM

#14

AlanBostick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,899

How do you feel about shrimp cocktails?

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09-13-2010 , 09:12 PM

#15

gaming_mouse

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 13,786

how is b/f even an option?

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09-14-2010 , 02:46 AM

#16

Pid Koker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,748

just because we've got a fh doesn't auto-make a river b/c profitable. against most, it is, but against some it's not. sounds like this is a nonstandard spot, and you can soul-read an occasional fold.

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09-14-2010 , 07:49 AM

#17

nerdking

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,592

...isn't this the hand that invented the furcoat parable? this is a bet/snapcall...SNAP-call.

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09-14-2010 , 12:35 PM

#18

Fianchetto

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,369

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaming_mouse

how is b/f even an option?

this + 1.

I must be really out of touch if this is ever a fold. If he rivered you, then you pay heem, you pay dat man his money.

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09-14-2010 , 02:42 PM

#19

vankuver

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,175

anyone like just calling flop and cr turn?

i think we often win the most this way, especially since the pot is still MW. spaz is guaranteed to bet any non ace and utg is never folding an overpair for 2 cold since our line looks suspicious. once we 3bet the flop i dont think we get more action on the big streets, unless spaz has 6x but then he might 3bet the turn with this (allowing us to 4bet) depending on the strength of his kicker.

Last edited by vankuver; 09-14-2010 at 02:43 PM. Reason: edit: just a thought though, OP's flop line is definitely my default

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09-14-2010 , 02:46 PM

#20

vankuver

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,175

as for the river, i think it's a super EASY bet/fold and don't really understand people's comments itt.

whatever price you're being offered isn't close to the million-1 that you actually need once the weak tight villain raises that river card IN LIVE POKER. obviously if the spaz raises im never folding.

Last edited by vankuver; 09-14-2010 at 02:48 PM. Reason: edit: i need a lot of hours with villain so im sure of my read

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09-15-2010 , 05:31 AM

#21

DontLimitMyHoldem

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 288

no....KK and poorly played 66 are the only hands that make sense....this is not a super easy b/f......THIS IS A SUPER SIMPLE B/C

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09-16-2010 , 02:35 PM

#22

bravos1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 19,021

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaming_mouse

how is b/f even an option?

this... b/c is really the only line imo.

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09-16-2010 , 03:41 PM

#23

MacGuyV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,298

Me have FH, me call.

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09-17-2010 , 03:33 PM

#24

batruha

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 350

I'd go all in pre flop if I knew i am catching a full boat.
Otherwise, considering that it is LHE, easy B/C imho.

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09-17-2010 , 04:14 PM

#25

AlanBostick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by batruha

I'd go all in pre flop if I knew i am catching a full boat.
Otherwise, considering that it is LHE, easy B/C imho.

Gimmick ban?

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