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10-29-2014 , 01:25 PM
#26
RLjolt
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centurion
Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheRail15
1- I don't even know where to begin: c-r flop is somewhere between slightly bad (if you consider the hand in isolation) and horrible (if you consider how it effects your c-c range. Leading the river is the same.

2- Please try to explain why not 3betting the BB is bad generally.

3- On what board are we turning a pair into a bluff here? Seriously?
1- Maybe, but that assumes people have ranges, and aren't mostly always terrible.
2- Agree, and 3 betting pre also would make OP's postflop situation like this become less clumsy.
3- not many. Additionally, there's prob not a lot of greatness with any line decision in this hand. If anything, the most +EV that could maybe come out of this is appearing we overplay HU in hopefulness that villain gets tilted for the remainder of the session.
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10-29-2014 , 01:27 PM
#27
RLjolt
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centurion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveistheman84
i hope you're not under the impression that i'm advocating turning this hand into a bluff. i'm saying, that when you c/r a flop, it's with the intention of betting twice more (either for value or as a bluff), and in this case, if dude's intention is to bet twice more (not sure why someone would c/r planning on donk checking the majority of runouts), it's going to morph from a value hand into a bluff somewhere between the turn and river most of the time (which is really bad).
What do we expect villains range to be here?
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10-29-2014 , 02:33 PM
#28
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old hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLjolt
What do we expect villains range to be here?
seems kind of irrelevant. what is YOUR range?
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10-29-2014 , 06:01 PM
#29
LessLurkMorePost
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grinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLjolt
1- Maybe, but that assumes people have ranges, and aren't mostly always terrible.
2- Agree, and 3 betting pre also would make OP's postflop situation like this become less clumsy.
3- not many. Additionally, there's prob not a lot of greatness with any line decision in this hand. If anything, the most +EV that could maybe come out of this is appearing we overplay HU in hopefulness that villain gets tilted for the remainder of the session.
1. Everybody has ranges. Sometimes they're weighted and sometimes they're wide, but there's always a range.

2. He was asking you to explain why you think 3betting the big blind is a good idea (why not 3betting the BB is bad = why 3betting the BB is good).

3. There's certainly some sort of line or combination of lines that is best. I highly doubt that villain is going to go on tilt for a session because we defend the A2s and then raise with a pair... And if he does, then he's just life tilted and any line would tilt him.
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10-29-2014 , 06:04 PM
#30
LessLurkMorePost
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grinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveistheman84
seems kind of irrelevant. what is YOUR range?
Never irrelevant. Our range preflop is certainly wide. Our continuing range is probably much less so.
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11-01-2014 , 02:13 AM
#31
RLjolt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LessLurkMorePost
2. He was asking you to explain why you think 3betting the big blind is a good idea (why not 3betting the BB is bad = why 3betting the BB is good).
Because when we call and flop a pair our only options for the rest of the hand stink.
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11-01-2014 , 02:41 AM
#32
RLjolt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveistheman84
seems kind of irrelevant. what is YOUR range?
probably folding A2 pre here, since everyone seems to have established villain has better than a pair of 2's and most likely an A in hand as well.
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11-04-2014 , 09:39 AM
#33
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Hero Value
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BBV Series Inaugural Champ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
Re: flop x/r

Don't x/r. you want showdown hands to balance the times you have unshowdown gutshots. The 8-J is also good for his range. I would x/r on 25J 26J or 2JK though.
Why do you say this exact flop texture? I'd be way more likely to x raise the first 2 than 2JK ainec. That is even more of a spot where we would be merge-turning our hand into a bluff imo.

And as for rest of the thread, I pretty much agree with all of LLMP and Steve's posts, and think RLJolt is way off here on the 3 points. And also I'm pretty sure that not defending A2s vs a co open is a mistake. It definitely hasn't been "established by everyone" that co either has a better A or higher pair. Hence for one thing people largely saying to x-call river so we get that value from his bluffs.
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11-04-2014 , 10:47 AM
#34
RLjolt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Value
Why do you say this exact flop texture? I'd be way more likely to x raise the first 2 than 2JK ainec. That is even more of a spot where we would be merge-turning our hand into a bluff imo.

And as for rest of the thread, I pretty much agree with all of LLMP and Steve's posts, and think RLJolt is way off here on the 3 points. And also I'm pretty sure that not defending A2s vs a co open is a mistake. It definitely hasn't been "established by everyone" that co either has a better A or higher pair. Hence for one thing people largely saying to x-call river so we get that value from his bluffs.
I only said fold because it seemed like posters know something about hero's range that we do not. That said, what specifically do you believe makes x/c through the river so optimal? And can we assume villain is just bluff barreling all day? What happens if turn and river come's 9T, QK, KT etc?
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11-03-2017 , 03:46 PM
#35
RLjolt
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centurion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLjolt
I only said fold because it seemed like posters know something about hero's range that we do not. That said, what specifically do you believe makes x/c through the river so optimal? And can we assume villain is just bluff barreling all day? What happens if turn and river come's 9T, QK, KT etc?
Bumping my question before 3 years pass. Looking back, I would say my logic was the worst of anyone else here.

Albeit, the 3/6-5/10 games on Bovada at the time was full of tilty trainwrecks. So maybe I was right sometimes to x/r last pairs for value.
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