So Al's post reminded me of a hand I played a while ago and since it was my first real hand at 40, I decided to dig it up and break it out.

So I have red aces in the SB.

Two weak limps, 3 crazy aggro people following go raise, 3-bet, cap. I call, BB calls, limpers call, everyone calls.

So 7 ways for 4 bets.

Flop KT3

So should I try to C/R or just bet out? I mean, I'm obviously never folding the flop here against these monkeys, so should I place a premium on knocking people out or building a big pot?

Or does it not matter at all?

i would try to eliminate players. that's usually my plan with one pair in 30 bet pots, anyway.

This pot is fantastically huge, so I check, but not necessarily to C/R. Ideally it would get bet and raised by the maniacs before it got to you and you could C/3B to knock some peeps out. If the world is calling anyway, I wait for a "safe" (red and below a T) turn and depending on flop action donk or go C/R.

To answer your question though I place the premium in knocking ppl out in a 7-way capped flop. Given that it likely won't happen with an everyday flop C/R, we have to wait till the turn to knock these fools out.

Eliminating players on the flop would also be my priority. Given the pf action seems like c/r would stand best chance of making players face 2 bets.

Unfortunately, this draw heavy flop is likely to hit many players. You certainly needed to dodge a lot of bullets; even if they won't fold, you might as well charge them the max. to draw.

c/3b or c/4b and b/c any non A turn (b/3b top set, obv)

Are you sure you don't want to stop the action preflop and ask for a stove to see if we should call?

This idea has come up in the middle stakes forum a couple of times in recent memory...how can it ever be right to fold Aces preflop? Or, am I just missing out on a joke here?

--AD

The pot's big but not quite out of control (yet).

Check.

If we can check/3-4bet a bet from anywhere we either get maximum value or a chance to price out some marginal draws and leave only the psychos in the pot with us.
If the action looks like one Late position player wants to lead and everyone else wants to call the flop, we can wait for the turn to c/r in an attempt to reduce the field.

I'm stuck on: What do we do if an early position player donks and everyone else calls?

What games do you play in?

CR now before he checks like a girl when a random spade shows up on the turn

that...

As usual after reading it I agree with everything Kit says.

Explaining jokes is no fun, but enjoy: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=234863

I think al was TRYING to be stupid/funny here. If not, I guess he's ninecentimeteral

That's the toughest scenario. I would probably still c/r and hope he three bets and knocks some out. Obviously most of these guys have cheese so they my give up.

obv check first. whether to raise depends on the action following, but I'm leaning towards pretty much always just calling if it comes back for 1 bet. I agree that knocking players out is our highest priority, but nobody will fold anything we want them to for only 2SB. Any gutter is seeing the turn no matter what. Any pair (excluding some pp's)is seeing the turn no matter what. You may be able to knock out pp's <99 for 2SB, which would be nice, but that's about it. I don't think we care about forcing bdfd's like As9x out, because somebody will almost always have some sort of spade that's seeing the river if they pick up a fd.

I would most likely just call (even call 2 cold sometimes), re-evaluate the info, and make a turn plan, hoping to face ppl with 2 cold at that time. Often times, gutters, Tx, etc will still have odds to call 2 cold on the turn, but you can at least give them an opportunity to make a mistake. I'd also be willing to fold to certain action on certain turns.

Check the flop with intentions of raising the maximum.

oh yeah, after we get the flop action, I think there's a very good chance that stove will tell us we can't just jam for value. If that's the case, then putting in any flop aggression will basically give us very very little chance of protecting our hand on the turn the times we're good.

yea i need at least 35sb to go in PF before i consider the pot out of control

Turn: I check, checks to the first bettor who was tilting who bets, one guy raises, folds to me, I make it 3, tilter looks at me and says "you don't think your AK is good, do you?" and caps it.

Ok, so now what? Pretty much barrel any non-broadway or spade?

What do we think his speech means?

Flush draw!

So the orginal flop raiser is last to act? I would check the turn thinking if the tilter is on a draw and checks the last to act will often bet and I get to charge the tilter 2. The only trouble is the last to act might puss out since it's live and he heard the other guy put you on AK. I would take my chances, though.

I think you left out what the full action on the flop was, as well as what the turn card was. Unless I missed it...

I don't know if this was a facetious comeback but it's probably accurate. I mean, at a certain point we can't price out a gutshot or similar draw. If 1 bet each goes in on the flop, and button puts in the first bet on the turn, then hero can possibly c/r to face the field with 2 big bets giving like 9.25:1 immediate (19.5:2). So like everyone else said, in the 30 sb pot, it's still feasible to plan to protect the hand somehow.

Yeah, my turn action is actually the flop action. My bad.