V1 in this hand is a common opponent of mine. Our relationship is friendly, but he's definitely noted that I've coolered him more than he's coolered me (true). Has limping and cold calling ranges, and tends to slowplay big hands (though recently he 5 bet JTx against me after three betting my UTG raise with AA rather than delay, as i had been four betting him liberally due to his fondness of 3 betting hands like KQ/99/AT on this board). I still think in this spot, his flop raises are more weighted towards strong but not nut hands. Also has a history of overplaying big streets against me, and not taking my action seriously until I put the fourth bet in.

V2 is your classic live nit. Also likes slowplay, tends to expand his hand ranges when stuck (irrelevant to this hand, he's up a bit), and can miss some value; overall though, he's okay for the stake and definitely doesn't give $ away. He also has a limping and cold calling range, but primarily with hands that should be raising.

V1 views me as well endowed rec player who likely doesn't lose enough to be bothered, but as a spewy non-winner nonetheless. V2, on the other hand, views me as a loose/hyper aggressive but reasonably skilled player who has a history of making some pretty good laydowns to him (and being right).

Hero has A A in the HJ

Action:
Hero opens, V1 cold calls CO, V2 calls BB

Flop (6.5 Sb): 8 4 2

Hero bets, V1 raises, V2 calls, I call to see what transpires on the turn from V2.

Turn (6.25 BB): 2
Check to V1 who bets. V2 calls. I raise. V1 3 bets. V2 calls 2 cold (!?!?). I...?

Thoughts:

Based on your villian descriptions and detailed hand analysis I think I agree with the 4 bet.

I think you played the hand well assuming you were confident V1 would bet the turn.

I would consider a bet against V2 HU on the river absent any logical scare cards that might hit his range. I find that when Im confused by the Nits range he ends up having a big pocket pair he just called pre flop with and couldn't get away from post because he waited all day for the hand. That being said, I can't blame you for wanting to check given your up against a nit. its just that when the pot gets monsterous people tend to forget how things got to this point and call with hands that can't possibly win.

BTW: does V1 ever 3b the turn for a free showdown? Also, what does he do with 99,TT,JJ's pre flop?

Cappers to punish v2. Check river so only 1 bet goes in. I'd fold if v1 bets and v2 raises.


Just out of curiosity how would v2 know what you lay down? Are you showing him your big laydowns? It seems kind of contrary that he sees you as a spew monkey while you're showing him enough big laydowns that he would make a note of it. Fwiw I will show only a select few people hands, it generally IME can only hurt your bottom line.

I would have just kept ramming the flop

. Don't do this

Sounds like villian 2 has something like 56. You need one more raise somewhere. Put it in on the flop if V2 will peel garbage on the flop but give up on a lot of turns. As played I 4b turn

lol, interesting read

I normally do like just fastplaying such strength out of position, but my confusion + the dynamic between myself and V1 led me to believe I would get it in better by jamming turn. I do agree in retrospect that a flop 3-bet is probably better.

Probably could've phrased that a bit better, huh?

Yeah, I would too. But OP has really detailed reads and the play seems to really match the reads. I am not much of a fan of waiting for the turn in multiway pots "just because", but with OP's reads, everything OP did makes a lot of sense. 4-bet turn and bet/call river, right?

V1 views me as well endowed, so I should just keep ramming him on the flop......

I think you two need to work out a few issues first, then get on to playing some cards.

+1 the endowed part making head hurt

That's not the only part of the body it will make hurt.

Everyone is hilarious.

Anyway, results:

V2 is a nit per op..and he's now managed to find the ability to put in 3 bets on the turn with a gut shot? His lack of aggressive action needs to be punished on the turn, since V1 is likely behind us as well. The river getting opened up for more than 1 bet is just setting money on fire.



edit results FTW! lol.

If you're so afraid of V2 how is four betting punishing him? If you're 4betting it should be for value so you can get an other bet on the river

Bet the river and if the nit raises fold. Otherwise you're losing a ton of value considering you can get a bet Out of two players

I don't know any nits who put in 3 bets on the turn, so yeah i'm a little afraid of what the heck he's doing in the hand without putting any action in!

There are already 3 bets in that this point. We are punishing him in case he is in fact on a draw or has a less two pair, we're also getting 2 to 1 on the last bet going in on the turn as v1 is still in the hand and likely behind.

Honestly after v1 folds I probably would have bet river.

your logic is so ass-backwards. So V2 is the one you're afraid of and you want to check when there are two people the hand, but bet it when its heads up against him?

So if you're so afraid of his calling 3 bets why the hell do you want to cap him? Either cap the turn and bet because you're ahead of their ranges, or call the turn 3 bet and river. Doing half of one and half the other is really bad

No need to get testy.

We aren't just capping him we are capping two players. The turn cap gets value from draws, and should freeze people from putting in river bets where it's hard to see two calls.

That's going on the "nit" read. If it were two live ones i'd be more inclined to cap and fire the river. I'm still totally befuddled how you would surmise a nit managed to get to the turn and then put 3 bets in with a gutter. But maybe we don't have the same definition of what a nit is..who knows.

Anyway I think i've derailed this one enough if you'd like to pander sarcasm privately my inbox is free : )

You don't want to freeze people form putting in river calls if you're 4 betting. If you're 4 betting its value and you should be trying to extracting value on the river. Any range that makes it appropriate to cap the turn in order to punish him includes far more hands that we get value from than we're behind.

Also Ive never said the nit has just a gutahot so I'm not sure why you keep repeatng that.