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A hand vs boc4life

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08-09-2010 , 12:04 PM

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

boc4life is the BTN. No special reads on BB. Can't understand BTN's flop / turn line... What does it represent for me? I guess it wouldn't be a smart way to play and OESD or a strong made hand... Should I be capping flop and leading river (my intention was to c/r turn) ?

Poker Stars $15/$30 Limit Hold'em - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.667 SB) Hero is SB with Q

7 folds, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps!, BTN calls, Hero calls

Flop: (12 SB) T

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, BTN calls, Hero raises, BB calls, BTN 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls

Turn: (10.5 BB) 2

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

River: (10.5 BB) 4

(3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, BTN folds

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08-09-2010 , 12:14 PM

KitCloudkicker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,405

he has KJ or J9s, why is that hard to understand

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08-09-2010 , 12:46 PM

MacGuyV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,298

Yah there are worse ways to play an OESD.

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08-09-2010 , 12:55 PM

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Quote:

Originally Posted by KitCloudkicker

he has KJ or J9s, why is that hard to understand

It would be easy to understand vs a bad player, but boc4life is good. So this made me wonder maybe this IS a good way to play KJ or J9s

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08-09-2010 , 01:01 PM

boc4life

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,910

Pretty transparent way to play an OESD, but it worked out pretty well.

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08-09-2010 , 01:17 PM

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Quote:

Originally Posted by boc4life

Pretty transparent way to play an OESD, but it worked out pretty well.

Yeah, I have to admit I tend to overthink it when playing vs players that I know are good; gotta stop it - vs any unknown I cap it w/o blinking. Darn, the state of the damn games is so bad that I have to sit in with folks like you just because there is a fish or two on the table.

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08-09-2010 , 01:19 PM

Hyperrrprank

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,231

???

It's an OESD 99% of the time? What's the question?

It's a neutral way to play it - he's got two callers and enough equity that he basically comes close to breaking even if he gets a free card on the turn. If he hits his hand he might get an extra bet out of a confused KQ or something.

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08-09-2010 , 01:41 PM

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperrrprank

It's a neutral way to play it - he's got two callers and enough equity that he basically comes close to breaking even if he gets a free card on the turn.

It's neutral ONLY if he gets free card on the turn. He has less than 33% equity, so he is not profiting from extra bets going in on the flop 3-way. He also gives up his implied odds when hitting the draw and all that trivial stuff. From that point on, it's a leveling game that I fooled myself into (like he knows that I know etc')

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08-09-2010 , 01:50 PM

boc4life

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,910

really, i don't have 33%?

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08-09-2010 , 01:53 PM

#10

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Nope, just stoved it - 27%

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08-09-2010 , 01:58 PM

#11

Captain R

Wot

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor32

Nope, just stoved it - 27%

Kinda depends, doesn't it? If BB has A

and boc has J

, boc has 36%.

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08-09-2010 , 02:06 PM

#12

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain R

Kinda depends, doesn't it? If BB has A

and boc has J

, boc has 36%.

This BB doesn't have AT in his cap range. His range is way tighter.

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08-09-2010 , 02:20 PM

#13

Captain R

Wot

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor32

This BB doesn't have AT in his cap range. His range is way tighter.

OK. So if he has AA, then boc has...

Spoiler:

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08-09-2010 , 02:47 PM

#14

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Wat? 22%

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08-09-2010 , 06:11 PM

#15

Captain R

Wot

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor32

Wat? 22%

Next time post your pokerstove so we don't have to keep going round and round on the same thing. You probably have different assumptions than I do.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

903 games 0.094 secs 9,606 games/sec

Board: Td Qh 4c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 07.309% 06.64% 00.66% 60 6.00 { AcQd }
Hand 1: 56.035% 55.37% 00.66% 500 6.00 { AhAs }
Hand 2: 36.656% 36.66% 00.00% 331 0.00 { Jc9c }

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08-09-2010 , 06:28 PM

#16

samdash

adept

Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,196

Much better play with KJ since your kings will sometimes be good. May get more money from a turned Ace (AQ top two) since you back 3-bet the flop rather than coming alive on the A turn. Also KJ is 8 outs to the nuts. J9 will sometimes hit a K and lose to AJ. Very reasonable to sometimes do this with any open ender though imo Just wondering about sometimes raising these open enders on the flop and what other hands you might call/back 3 bet with.

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08-10-2010 , 03:50 AM

#17

vankuver

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,175

Quote:

Originally Posted by boc4life

Pretty transparent way to play an OESD, but it worked out pretty well.

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08-10-2010 , 11:31 AM

#18

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain R

You are correct. I stoved something else I guess, don't remember what now. Meh, nm. Promise to post the stove next time, sorry - my bad.
/thread

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08-10-2010 , 02:23 PM

#19

Tryptamean

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Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,844

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor32

You are correct. I stoved something else I guess, don't remember what now. Meh, nm. Promise to post the stove next time, sorry - my bad.
/thread

i got numbers in the range you first posted... depending on the strength of boc's oesd, but never having more than fair share. i dont know why captain r stoved against two specific hands.

so, the play has to work in order to be a good play. even if it works to shut down most Qx hands in Hero's range, he's still going to get capped or led into a fair amount. so i dont like it much. even if i knew for a fact that Hero would play AQ and worse like this, it seems thin.

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08-10-2010 , 02:34 PM

#20

armor32

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tryptamean

so, the play has to work in order to be a good play. even if it works to shut down most Qx hands in Hero's range, he's still going to get capped or led into a fair amount. so i dont like it much. even if i knew for a fact that Hero would play AQ and worse like this, it seems thin.

These were precisely my thoughts during the hand. Now, since I figured boc knew I would think like this, I decided he actually wants me to cap and lead, so I put him on a very strong hand and shut down. An obvious summary is that being OOP sucks, you sometimes fold better hands and sometimes don't extract value as you should have.

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08-11-2010 , 12:46 AM

#21

Captain R

Wot

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor32

my intention was to c/r turn

ORLY?

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor32

I decided he actually wants me to cap and lead, so I put him on a very strong hand and shut down.

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