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Hand Against The Dude Hand Against The Dude

01-24-2008 , 09:30 AM
I don't remember the exact preflop and flop action of the other players in the hand, but everything me and the Dude do are correct.

There's a raise and a couple cold calls, maybe a limp as well. I call in the SB with XXs, Dude calls in the BB. We're like six ways.

Flop is 665r. Check to PFR who bets, a couple calls, I raise, Dude 3bets, folded to me I 4bet, he fives and I call.

Turn is a 4. Check bet call.

River is a 2. I check he bets and I fold.

What is the best hand I can have that makes my river fold correct?
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01-24-2008 , 09:57 AM
67/68
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01-24-2008 , 10:00 AM
Let's see... probably 76s. (Any other 6 would beat you). With 86 I think you can't fold even though 76 is the only 6 you can beat, but that's because 76 is one of the more likely hands-with-a-6 that will call PF.

You're not playing your hand like you intend on folding, so Dude's never bluffing, and Dude is repping a 6 at worst, perhaps a boat or turned straight (though he really shouldn't be 5-betting a straight draw, so I'm discounting that).

I'm sort of thinking this hand out as I type it, and I suck, so take this with a grain of salt but I'm putting you on 76 if you folded and made a tough but probably good laydown, and putting dude on a hand like 55 or A6 or 86 or some crazy K6s/Q6s that he was justified calling PF with given the action.
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01-24-2008 , 11:01 AM
Preflop: The Dude's range includes small/medium pairs, broadways, any two suited and unsuited connectors. Your range would be similar except the unsuited cards would be missing and your suited cards would either be paint or double gapped.

Flop: The Dude's 3bet on the flop represents at least a big 5. Your 4 bet on the flop represents at least a 6. If The Dude has a 6 and given your range however, you can only possibly have 9 sixes that don't make a full house. Also if The Dude has a 6 there are only 4 possible combos of full houses that you could have. The Dude's 5 bet means he has at least A6 here.

Turn and River cards eliminate two of the possible 6's that you could have that The Dude's A6 would still beat.....yet he continues to bet. He has at least a house here.

Folding K6 would be as far as I would go. A6 is a call and hope for a chop.

Last edited by Timogen; 01-24-2008 at 11:06 AM. Reason: correction
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01-24-2008 , 03:19 PM
I'll add a "+1" to the 86, although I'd call with a wider range than that if there's a bunch of "he knows I know he knows" history between you two.
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01-24-2008 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timogen
Preflop: The Dude's range includes small/medium pairs, broadways, any two suited and unsuited connectors. Your range would be similar except the unsuited cards would be missing and your suited cards would either be paint or double gapped.

Flop: The Dude's 3bet on the flop represents at least a big 5. Your 4 bet on the flop represents at least a 6. If The Dude has a 6 and given your range however, you can only possibly have 9 sixes that don't make a full house. Also if The Dude has a 6 there are only 4 possible combos of full houses that you could have. The Dude's 5 bet means he has at least A6 here.

Turn and River cards eliminate two of the possible 6's that you could have that The Dude's A6 would still beat.....yet he continues to bet. He has at least a house here.

Folding K6 would be as far as I would go. A6 is a call and hope for a chop.
Agree with this guy ^^

-DeathDonkey
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01-24-2008 , 08:00 PM
But just to be nitpicky (my specialty), the turn and river eliminate 3, not 2, of the possible 6s that A6 can beat (remember 63 now makes a straight). But Justin's passivity on the turn and river give the Dude an easier value bet with a hand like Q6 and J6 I think (not that I think he's necessarily this weak, but it's in his range). So I don't think A6 is a crying hope-to-chop call.
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01-24-2008 , 09:58 PM
I think you guys aren't giving the Dude enough credit as a player.
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01-24-2008 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timogen
Preflop: The Dude's range includes small/medium pairs, broadways, any two suited and unsuited connectors. Your range would be similar except the unsuited cards would be missing and your suited cards would either be paint or double gapped.

Flop: The Dude's 3bet on the flop represents at least a big 5. Your 4 bet on the flop represents at least a 6. If The Dude has a 6 and given your range however, you can only possibly have 9 sixes that don't make a full house. Also if The Dude has a 6 there are only 4 possible combos of full houses that you could have. The Dude's 5 bet means he has at least A6 here.

Turn and River cards eliminate two of the possible 6's that you could have that The Dude's A6 would still beat.....yet he continues to bet. He has at least a house here.

Folding K6 would be as far as I would go. A6 is a call and hope for a chop.
This is an excellent strategy post.

Why can't his continued betting be a straight though, rather than a house?
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01-25-2008 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaming_mouse
This is an excellent strategy post.

Why can't his continued betting be a straight though, rather than a house?
His flop play would be somewhat ridiculous with a straight draw.
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01-25-2008 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker
But just to be nitpicky (my specialty), the turn and river eliminate 3, not 2, of the possible 6s that A6 can beat (remember 63 now makes a straight). But Justin's passivity on the turn and river give the Dude an easier value bet with a hand like Q6 and J6 I think (not that I think he's necessarily this weak, but it's in his range). So I don't think A6 is a crying hope-to-chop call.
Well being nitpicky in return, I only included double gapped suited connectors for Justin...I left 62s out of his range therefore the river eliminates 2 possiblities. Obviously, I could be way off on my ranges here.

I thought about Justin's passivity on the turn and I was agreeing with this before I even read your post, but on the flop The Dude would now have to flinch first in the this game of chicken and call down with Q6/J6 instead of 5 betting. Q6/J6 are not ahead of enough of Justin's sixes to warrant opening himself up to the possibility of a sixth bet.


Gaming Mouse,

I believe that The Dude's flop action indicate that his hand was stronger than 63. So it is not possible for him to have a straight.
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