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10-08-2014 , 01:47 AM

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

The park, of canterbury 20/40

CO- ~1000 hands history, seemingly always solid but tough to tell since he's been running like poker savant lately; not smart enough to remember me tho.

Hero BUTTON - prolly weak/tag image from being card dead all night

CO opens, Hero 3! with A

, CO calls HU.

flop, 6

, CO chks, Hero bets, CO calls.
turn 2

, CO chks, Hero bets, CO calls.
river: 4

, CO chks, hero... splashes the pot?

Quote

10-08-2014 , 02:19 AM

CrazyLond

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,997

Flop: I think having a check back range that this hand is part of is probably ok on this flop but cbetting everything is probably ok too.

Turn: I bet a lot of turns generally when I am aggressor but I think this is a spot I check. I think betting opens us up to getting check raised a ton on this texture and we are going to have a lot of tough river decisions. I think it's just too wet a texture to auto showdown AT unimproved.

River: I think betting here is terrible. Very few hands we beat ever fold and very few hands we are beating ever call.

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10-08-2014 , 02:20 AM

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

do you expect people to fold AQ here?

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10-08-2014 , 02:44 AM

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

do you expect people to fold AQ here?

Is that a terrible idea?

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10-08-2014 , 02:58 AM

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyLond

Might be leveling myself, but I can't find a good reason yet for villian to ever not c/r flop if he has any part of it given a board texture where I'm almost always slowing down on turn with A9-AK.

Last edited by RLjolt; 10-08-2014 at 03:04 AM.

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10-08-2014 , 03:10 AM

lawdude

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10,305

On flops like this, villain is going to miss a ton of draws, and semi-bluffs are going to make the turn costly a lot of the time. So why not have a nice, wide value-checking range on the turn so that we pick off a lot of the missed draws on the river?

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10-08-2014 , 03:35 AM

Mubsy Bogues

banned

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyLond

so in summary you think he should check every street? lol?

Quote

10-08-2014 , 04:06 AM

CrazyLond

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,997

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLjolt

Might be leveling myself, but I can't find a good reason yet for villian to ever not c/r flop if he has any part of it given a board texture where I'm almost always slowing down on turn with A9-AK.

I'm confused. Are you saying he would have check raised flop if he had any piece in the actual hand you played because he incorrectly assumed you'd check back ace high on turn?

Or are you saying he will adjust and start check raising the flop if we start checking back aces on the turn? If this is the case, we then need to adjust by adopting a flop check back range or making lighter flop peels and thin value raises on turn.

In any event, saying I would check back AT on turn doesn't mean I think we should check back AK. I think adding every combination of AQ, AJ and AT to the hands we're ahead of significantly changes the value of our bet.

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10-08-2014 , 04:17 AM

CrazyLond

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,997

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mubsy Bogues

so in summary you think he should check every street? lol?

I think flop is a stylistic decision that probably doesn't make a huge difference if you are capable of constructing a balanced check back range. I think turn is close. My instinct says check but I think you could build a good case for either betting or checking.

I think river is clear check and is probably what OP should focus on if I correctly interpreted the advice I was given in the ak hand I posted a couple months ago.

Obviously I don't think that you should check behind 3 times as the situation is completely different after we check once and our opponent acts on the next street.

Last edited by CrazyLond; 10-08-2014 at 04:30 AM.

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10-08-2014 , 08:21 AM

#10

Poogs

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,501

Yea I don't see what betting the river accomplishes. You maybe get AJ to fold but that's questionable and it's probably the one and only hand you lose to that would think about folding.

I would probably check the turn and check the river or call a river bet, but that seems fishy. Is A10 off a standard 3bet pre here?

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10-08-2014 , 10:31 AM

#11

kennydawgg

banned

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 231

To a CO open on the button 100% of our playable range should be a 3! So ATo if you chose to play(villain dependant) was correct imo. If your villain is the type your 3! They will peel a lot of AK/Q/J and other Broadway combinations to the turn and many times to the river so you should barrel the river. That being said you should be folding AT to the people that are generally showdown bound with A high on ratty boards HU.

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10-08-2014 , 11:00 AM

#12

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyLond

I'm confused. Are you saying he would have check raised flop if he had any piece in the actual hand you played because he incorrectly assumed you'd check back ace high on turn?

I considered it.

Quote

10-08-2014 , 12:06 PM

#13

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poogs

Preflop is a must 3!

I'm not sure if betting river accomplishes anything, but the consideration I made is that it's hard for him to justify that I'm on the low end of my 3! range by the river given my weak/tag image that just woke up and started barreling every street. After the turn I felt it was safe to consider his range is most likely in the neighborhood of (AT-JT,AJcc, possibly AQ or AK).

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10-08-2014 , 12:12 PM

#14

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLjolt

Is that a terrible idea?

Do you expect him to fold AQ?

Quote

10-08-2014 , 12:15 PM

#15

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennydawgg

Which street should I be folding against these people?

Quote

10-08-2014 , 12:29 PM

#16

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

Do you expect him to fold AQ?

After 3 betting pre and barreling every street on a board that doesn't bode well for AQ's, I considered it.

Is that a terrible idea?

Quote

10-08-2014 , 01:44 PM

#17

LHELHELHE

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 165

I play over cards in a simple way but it seems to work quite well for me.

If I have the following hands and the low board gives us over cards and I was the raiser pre-flop with position:

AT/AJ: CBET flop, if no check raise barrel turn but check/fold river.
AK/AQ: CBET flop, if no check raise check turn but check/call river.

My reason for this:
with AT/AJ I want to barrel turn to try to fold AK/AQ/any medium weak pairs.
with AK/AQ I like to check turn and induce river bluff from AJ-- and missed draw type of hands on the river.

I'm a very new LHE player but so far this approach seems to work OK for me.

Quote

10-08-2014 , 02:01 PM

#18

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

I don't think it's terrible, but everybody I consider solid at Canterbury I would expect to call AQ here alsmot always.

Quote

10-08-2014 , 02:20 PM

#19

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHELHELHE

Turn: if there was no c/r on the flop I like to think I'm barreling this turn because I have best hand equity, a few outs, and it prevents opponent from getting a free draw. I did consider AK or AQ folding but not sure if it's terrible to consider that yet.

River: If I chkd turn, I don't think it be for the purpose of inducing villian to bluff river since villian hasn't exactly appeared strong. If turn went chk/chk I would expect villian to c/c AJ-AK almost 100% here (probably hoping I'm going to bluff river) while also expecting that I'm calling any bet fairly light given the lack of strength shown up to this point.

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10-08-2014 , 02:53 PM

#20

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,688

would CO 4bet any hands preflop?

Quote

10-08-2014 , 04:56 PM

#21

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadBabar

would CO 4bet any hands preflop?

give or take, I have about,
90% confidence he would 4bet QQ+, AKs
50% confidence he would 4bet AQss, TT-JJ, AKo
</= 15% confident he would 4bet something like TJss, or even AJss

Quote

10-09-2014 , 12:36 AM

#22

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,688

okay, so given that he didn't 4bet preflop in this hand, it means it's a bit less likely that he has the AK, AQ, AJ combos that we're mainly targeting with a river bet

Quote

10-09-2014 , 03:54 AM

#23

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

I don't think it's terrible, but everybody I consider solid at Canterbury I would expect to call AQ here alsmot always.

Should I expect him to fold K-high here?

Quote

10-09-2014 , 04:04 AM

#24

RLjolt

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadBabar

okay, so given that he didn't 4bet preflop in this hand, it means it's a bit less likely that he has the AK, AQ, AJ combos that we're mainly targeting with a river bet

What about worse calls? A9,A3cc, K-high?

Quote

10-09-2014 , 06:14 AM

#25

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,688

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLjolt

What about worse calls? A9,A3cc, K-high?

we beat all of those things and i don't think very many of them, if any, would call

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