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Folding JTs -- Pre-flop scenarios

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01-28-2011 , 03:54 AM

Melkerson

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Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,465

Live 20-40. Here's a few of times I folded JTs. Game is 9 handed live 20-40. Table isn't great. There's 2 guys that aren't great and call too many hands preflop and the rest of the table is some pretty good TAGs who are on the nittier side.

Hand 1: JTs, UTG. I actually limp with this hand more than 50% of the time in this position (maybe that's wrong) but here I folded it.

Hand 2. JTs on the button. Hand is folded to the cutoff who raises.

Hand 3. JTs on the button. UTG +1 raises, MP 3-bets, cutoff calls, I fold.

Hand 4. JTs in the BB. Folded to MP who raises, button 3-bets, SB folds.

So what do we think of these folds?

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01-28-2011 , 04:12 AM

bdaddy

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkerson

1. Since the table is on tighter side I'm raising J10s here.
2. Need more info on CO's range and how foldy/sd bound tough he is, could be 3b or fold.
3. Good fold.
4. uggh. ..again depends on my reads of other 2 players, it's probably a fold but it's so pretty.

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01-28-2011 , 05:13 AM

gaming_mouse

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Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 13,786

bdaddy nailed it though i think 4 is a standard fold unless villains are really laggy

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01-28-2011 , 10:36 AM

MacGuyV

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,298

I don't really see how tight table = raise utg. Yah sometimes you'll be HU vs. a blind but the times you aren't is going to be ~3way oop with the worst hand. I'd rather the table be set up so that I'm more likely to get called 4 times.

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01-28-2011 , 01:21 PM

kirbymontor

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 360

I don't think JTs UTG for a raise/call is all that profitable in a tight game. I would limp in if the game was loose and not very aggressive.

JTs on the button vs. a CO raise can have many variables which even open the possibility for a flat call along with a 3bet.

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01-28-2011 , 02:19 PM

AlanBostick

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacGuyV

And sometimes we'll take down the blinds without a quarrel. Tight players tend to respect UTG raises more than perhaps they ought.

The reason to raise UTG with JTs at a tight table is that if we don't manage to steal the blinds we still have a reasonable hand. And it's pretty much unshowdownable if it misses, so it works well against tighties for 3-barrel bluffs.

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01-28-2011 , 02:46 PM

MacGuyV

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,298

A 3barrel can also be pretty expensive vs. someone with a better than average range. But I guess 'tight' at some point became synonymous with 'weak'.

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01-28-2011 , 07:20 PM

VvsKing

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 529

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkerson

3 I fold. 4 I'm sure is a leak but I call, because it's limit and I'm most likely seeing all 5 cards...

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01-28-2011 , 08:58 PM

bugstud

Minbet Master

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,280

you should be way more inclined to call #3 than #4, but both are folds.

I can't recall folding or limping #1 in the past 3 years, #2 varies by player, JTs being one of my standard hands to widen my 3bet range with whenever appropiate

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01-29-2011 , 01:34 AM

#10

kirbymontor

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 360

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugstud

Wouldn't your 3bet range decide more on how the player your trying to isolate plays post-flop? I would be more inclined to 3bet in that spot with a decent A high hand as opposed to a JTs hand.

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01-29-2011 , 02:16 AM

#11

bdaddy

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,009

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbymontor

Wouldn't your 3bet range decide more on how the player your trying to isolate plays post-flop? I would be more inclined to 3bet in that spot with a decent A high hand as opposed to a JTs hand.

it should be a combination of their pf range, and how they play postflop.

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01-29-2011 , 11:43 AM

#12

Rollinghard

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 78

3 before 4 for sure.

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01-29-2011 , 11:46 AM

#13

Rollinghard

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 78

playing a high volume pot in positon. can get away from the hand if i dont hit the flop.

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01-29-2011 , 12:10 PM

#14

kirbymontor

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 360

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollinghard

playing a high volume pot in positon. can get away from the hand if i dont hit the flop.

so your saying you would call the CO raise instead of 3bet to make?

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02-02-2011 , 05:36 AM

#15

sublime

Mr. Roper

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 22,527

Quote:

I call, because it's limit and I'm most likely seeing all 5 cards.

and losing money on each street

fold, it sucks ass in this spot.

Last edited by sublime; 02-02-2011 at 05:48 AM.

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