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flopping the nice flop with AQ flopping the nice flop with AQ

09-15-2011 , 04:37 AM
CP 15/30 9 handed.

Villain is 15game/30game reg, definitely on the laggy side but nothing tremendously out of line. Too loose pf both in terms of 3! too wide and cold calling too much, semibluffs frequently, showdown bound. He's down about a rack in his first orbit at the table from standard coolers and draws getting there, so he's likely tilted.

Hero raises AQ utg.
Villain 3! utg+1 - A rough estimate of his range here would be AJ+, A8s+ (although I'm not sure here because he normally CCs these), most PPs, some suited broadways, KQo. (don't think he'd 3! QJo or QTs though).
Extreme fish in SB calls.

3 to the flop.
QQ4
SB checks, I check, villain bets, SB calls, I raise, villain 3!, SB folds. I call.

Justification for the call: After the 3! I expect villain to have basically his entire range of PPs, AsXs, KQ, and AQ. Villain seems to two barrel a high percentage of the time and doesn't get MUBSY when scare cards hit (e.g. will b/c the flush/straight completing turn with Ahi call river unimproved when he thinks he's being played back at), so I feel like I can frequently c/r turn and get a call on the river, netting an extra small bet. Similarly, I believe he's never 5! flop with a worse hand (except maybe KQ) so I don't think I can get 3 bets in on the big bet streets if I 4! flop. But maybe a 4! is more appropriate, I'm looking for input here. FWIW I would have 4! had fish called the 3!.

turn: QQ4A
I donk.

Justification for the donk: From the preflop/flop action I have reason to believe that most of villain's range is comprised of PPs, and this is a terrible turn (for my action) against that range. I think he's checking back close to 100% of the time he holds a pocket pair but will also call a donk close to 100% of the time given his showdown-boundness and foul mood. Granted, I probably miss a bet against whatever AsXs is in his range, but I think this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that I'll probably get 4BB in against worse queens instead of 3 (I donk, he raises, I 3! versus him calling down after I c/r turn). I also get crushed when he has the 1 combo of AA if that matters at all.

Should I have stuck with the c/r plan?
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 05:35 AM
i would stick with the 4bet flop plan
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 06:29 AM
I'd stick with the 4bet plan as well. Your hand just might look a little more like a semi bluff with spades than a made hand. Once you call and c/r the turn he knows where you're at and even if he won't fold, you can't get more action out of him. If you 4bet he'll stilll spew off his KQ/QJs hands and just might 5bet his flush draws. I'd 6bet to his 5bet.

Generally, when i can also have a draw in my range I like to jam in these types of spots. If he has KJss here and checks brick turns then not 4betting the flop becomes a disaster. Even if he "usually" 2 barrels, you've already shown a fair amount of strength given that you raised UTG and then c/r the field on this flop. What do you think he thinks your range is here?
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 07:41 AM
4 bets on the flop.
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 09:13 AM
4 betting on the flop seems like the most reasonable thing to do. And I would definitely not donk the turn. Did he end up folding?
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 12:44 PM
This, you just need to let him hang himself and extract your value by fast playing oop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBabar
i would stick with the 4bet flop plan
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyFilter
There is no possible Justification for the call. I am filled with shame about it: After the 3! I expect villain to have basically his entire range of PPs, AsXs, KQ, and AQ. Villain seems to two barrel a high percentage of the time and doesn't get MUBSY when scare cards hit (e.g. will b/c the flush/straight completing turn with Ahi call river unimproved when he thinks he's being played back at), so I feel like I can frequently c/r turn and get a call on the river, netting an extra small bet. Similarly, I believe he's never 5! flop with a worse hand (except maybe KQ) so I don't think I can get 3 bets in on the big bet streets if I 4! flop. But maybe a 4! is more appropriate, I'm looking for input here. FWIW I would have 4! had fish called the 3!.
FYP
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 02:59 PM
haha fine 4bets on the flop.

do i have to donk the turn given the expert flop slow play?
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 03:34 PM
Question to all those saying 4bet the flop: Is there any other hand we're 4betting with here that isn't Qx/44? Do balance considerations matter here?
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifttarrow
Question to all those saying 4bet the flop: Is there any other hand we're 4betting with here that isn't Qx/44? Do balance considerations matter here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyFilter
CP 15/30 9 handed.
No, balance considerations aren't that important.
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyFilter
haha fine 4bets on the flop.

do i have to donk the turn given the expert flop slow play?
Yea I would donk the turn as played. If he has exactly As Ks then u may be able to b/3 and make a lot of monies

Last edited by obi_wang; 09-15-2011 at 05:16 PM.
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 06:11 PM
yeah i like the turn donk too as played unless you have the read that he will always barrel again with draws as well as PP, which you probably dont and will be fairly rare in a live setting
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifttarrow
Question to all those saying 4bet the flop: Is there any other hand we're 4betting with here that isn't Qx/44? Do balance considerations matter here?
4bet AKss, AJss, ATss. There's your balance, though AKss is a cap preflop i suppose.
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb87
4bet AKss, AJss, ATss. There's your balance, though AKss is a cap preflop i suppose.
Not if we never reraise preflop HU OOP.

(And besides, doesn't CP have a five-bet cap, not four? And why does the cap matter; it's head-up?)
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-15-2011 , 08:29 PM
Jam this board and get as many bets in as you can. Nice hand
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote
09-16-2011 , 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
Not if we never reraise preflop HU OOP.

(And besides, doesn't CP have a five-bet cap, not four? And why does the cap matter; it's head-up?)
3 way pot preflop...
flopping the nice flop with AQ Quote

      
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