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07-19-2008 , 08:10 PM

BurningSquirrel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,785

10/20€ - very good game- they play J3, K5 off all the time - 2 reasonable/good players

Me AQo - SB

pot limped 6 ways - call

Flop J3A - 2clubs

I bet, folded to mp (thinks that a straight wins if you have the higher other card eg. X3456 - he claims pot with K7 vs J7) raises, folded to me I 3 bet, he calls - I check dark

Turn A - he bets, I raise, he calls - i check dark

River 7c - he bets - ?

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07-19-2008 , 08:35 PM

SNOWBALL

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,314

checkraise again please

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07-20-2008 , 06:37 PM

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,682

i mean yea, i raise the river again and call a 3bet

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07-20-2008 , 07:41 PM

BurningSquirrel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,785

ok i guess i play too result orientated

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07-21-2008 , 10:52 AM

sickofitall

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,338

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSquirrel

(thinks that a straight wins if you have the higher other card eg. X3456 - he claims pot with K7 vs J7)

lol!!!

why are you checking all the time? at least on the river i'd just bet out as there are lot of worse hands a monkey like this is paying off but check when checked to

i'd bet/3bet turn, bet river (calldown when turn get capped)

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07-21-2008 , 01:33 PM

BurningSquirrel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,785

I got value by betting TT vs him and another on J 8 9 4 K board where both called down with a nine and unknown, this game is so ridiculously weak... but this hand felt strange because he called the turn. He wanted to get tricky, a player of this caliber can only do that with a monster. So I called down and he showed me A3 for the FH.

But I still had to raise him, this was incorrect play with good result.

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07-21-2008 , 05:18 PM

n.s.

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,766

Was the Ac on board? If so, I'd check-raise again, otherwise I'd just call.

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07-21-2008 , 05:45 PM

Munchkin Mayor

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 349

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSquirrel

Sounds like you had a good read on him. And therefore played it correctly. Oh, I suppose if you really trusted your read you'd check fold the river

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07-21-2008 , 05:47 PM

Munchkin Mayor

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 349

Btw, why the dark check on the turn. Not sure I understand the value of this play.

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07-21-2008 , 11:40 PM

#10

danspartan

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,851

You have to c/r after checking dark on the river. Its pure entertainment value at this point. You're going to beat most other aces, likely not get re-raised by the flush. And if you get re-raised by a boat, so be it.

Whats the point of dark checking with trip aces? You miss a chance to try and get another bet the >3/4 time the flush misses. You can check/call the flush. Given the player read you cannot fold.

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07-22-2008 , 03:58 AM

#11

Alex Wice

aka Double Ice

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,952

raise pre
raise flop
raise turn
raise river
you are lucky to not be the fish in that game after missing obvious bets and checking dark

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07-22-2008 , 06:16 PM

#12

BurningSquirrel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,785

well I raised... I'm not lucky to be the fish since

I played it tricky that's why i post it here I.m not posting standart stuff - I can't really raise it pre-flop this is pointless in that game with 5-6 limpers - trust me

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07-22-2008 , 06:36 PM

#13

Chris Daddy Cool

The ****ing best

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,582

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSquirrel

I can't really raise it pre-flop this is pointless in that game with 5-6 limpers - trust me

This is not a good reason not to raise preflop. I can understand not raising as a stylistic difference, but when you say that they are routinely limping K5o and J3o and are weak/atrocious using your argument (or rather lack of one) for not raising is a bad one that displays a lack of fundamental gameplay.

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07-22-2008 , 07:42 PM

#14

RudeboyOi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,119

i raise down to ATo from the blinds if the pot is limped

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07-23-2008 , 10:48 AM

#15

BurningSquirrel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,785

I bloat pot that's pointless here it is not stylistic it is game dynamics - will never go 3 way to flop here

btw- if you allegate "lack of fundamental gameplay" please explain why it is necessary to raise here pre-flop, and why this would change anything.

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07-23-2008 , 10:54 AM

#16

bisonbison

banned

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14,382

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSquirrel

allegate

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9204353AAoW1OU

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07-23-2008 , 11:16 AM

#17

sickofitall

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,338

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSquirrel

why it is necessary to raise here pre-flop, and why this would change anything.

nobody says it "changes" anything (it sure sometimes does, too) but most of the time you have an EQ advantage in that case and make $ when you push your edge. lets say you have 5 limpers with this range:

22-44, A4s-A2s, K8s-K2s, Q9s-Q2s, J5s+, T7s+, 98s, A7o-A2o, K9o-K2o, Q5o+, J7o+, T9o

the limpers all have 15% eq while AQ has 25%. with 6 sb in your share is .25*6sb. when you raise your share would be .25*12sb .

thats pretty basic stuff

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07-23-2008 , 12:23 PM

#18

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 23,106

Of course the equity advantage is "basic" and definately there, but you lose quite a bit by being out of position in a multiway pot with an offsuit big-card hand.

When you play this hand (AQo) you are basically hoping to win a pot with one pair, which is not easy to do with multiway action. It is also hard to capitalize on your equity when out of position, often giving you RIO problems when you hit top pair on the flop. It may be better to keep the flop small, giving yourself a better chance to win or causing your loose opponents to make bigger post-flop mistakes by drawing when correct pot odds are not there.

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07-23-2008 , 12:41 PM

#19

bschrade

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 272

i agree with no raise pre. leave the pot smaller so your opponents are more incorrect to peel with bottom pair and stuff on the flop.

agree with 3bet on flop.

dark check is silly imo, i donk/3bet turn.

donk/call river unless turn is 4bet in which case i check/call.

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07-23-2008 , 12:43 PM

#20

RudeboyOi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,119

dont think too hard when it comes to preflop play

if it helps its kind of analogous to doubling down in blackjack

if you dont double down you still will probably win the hand

but youre missing out on getting more money in the pot

when you have an edge

just remember you dont have to c-bet every flop

its okay to check and see what happens

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07-23-2008 , 05:23 PM

#21

BurningSquirrel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,785

yeah ok

sry about "allegate" I'm from Germany and sometimes have to type this stuff really quickly.

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07-23-2008 , 06:51 PM

#22

Captain R

Wot

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,574

Gestapo are on to you too, eh?

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07-23-2008 , 06:59 PM

#23

BurningSquirrel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,785

unfortunately yes - now after 20. july

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07-23-2008 , 10:10 PM

#24

npknhldr

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 583

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickofitall

these ranges are wrong, thus your equity estimate is grossly inflated. Thus, your opinion on the "correctness" of the pre-flop complete is correspondingly mistaken. It is a marginal spot either way: the only mistake would be to open fold.

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07-23-2008 , 10:33 PM

#25

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by npknhldr

i think we can debate all day about ranges but vs a lineup of 5 or 6 lolbad limpers AQ has a solid equity advantage no matter how you want to slice it.

whether or not you're comfy being oop and/or choose to raise it out of the blinds vs this lineup is another matter imo

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