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Old 03-06-2018, 10:50 AM   #1
mongidig
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Call?

20/40 live 9 handed.

Folded to me in LJ and I raise Jc9c, the button And both blinds call.

KdQs2c.....Checked to me and I check, button checks.

KdQs2cJh...Laggy SB bets, only I call

KdQs2cJh6s...SB bets.....He is extremely agro pre so his range is decapitated quite a bit. He is also very loose with his calling pre....He's calling any K,Q, or J suited. I feel like he might check/call his worse J's on the river. He does like to bluff, but there are not many bluffs in his range here...maybe some Txs hands.

He probably over respects me. I play much tighter relative to him. I think his bet into 3 players on this board is a legit hand. He never donks the flop. He knows the J improved me.

So is this a call? Fold? Raise?
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:58 AM   #2
holmfries
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Re: Call?

Without a FD I feel like he is gonna show up with very few bluffs on the river. I probably just fold here.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:10 AM   #3
DonJuan
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Re: Call?

given the pot pre this is most likely a call without looking at some sim. You could have tt/99/88/77 that he probably getting value from w J8 and also chop out w J9.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:46 AM   #4
stinkypete
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Re: Call?

wager flop
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:37 PM   #5
phunkphish
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Re: Call?

Given your flop check and turn call, your range looks (and is) very decapitated. thinking villain can be betting river very wide against you, so you need to call here. you're actually pretty high up in your range.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:12 PM   #6
jdr0317
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Re: Call?

Yeah this feels like payoff wizardry but I think it's right to do so.
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:51 PM   #7
OnTheRail15
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Re: Call?

This is not a great candidate to chk flop imo.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:59 AM   #8
6MaxLHE
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Re: Call?

If you believe he has a legit hand why would you consider raising? It's not like were at the top of our folding range and trying to fold out Qx hands. I think this one is close, but based on your read folding is probably the best option. In a vacuum this is a call most of the time because Axs, T8 and T7 all missed.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:52 AM   #9
mongidig
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Re: Call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheRail15 View Post
This is not a great candidate to chk flop imo.
I get Raised here often and I don't think I get many folds with my bet. What is your reasoning for betting here?
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:55 AM   #10
mongidig
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Re: Call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE View Post
If you believe he has a legit hand why would you consider raising? It's not like were at the top of our folding range and trying to fold out Qx hands. I think this one is close, but based on your read folding is probably the best option. In a vacuum this is a call most of the time because Axs, T8 and T7 all missed.
I don't want to raise the river. I just gave that as an option.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:35 PM   #11
Kevin J
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Re: Call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
I get Raised here often and I don't think I get many folds with my bet. What is your reasoning for betting here?
You won't always get raised, but easy call if you do, plus enough reasonable turn cards to continue on. If you're checking flop with hands like J9 I can't see folding river after making a pair of jacks getting 7:1, but I guess it depends...

When you say he over respects you: Does this mean he thinks you're capable of precision river folds? Or that you'll be hard to bluff?
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:44 PM   #12
DeathDonkey
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Re: Call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
I get Raised here often and I don't think I get many folds with my bet. What is your reasoning for betting here?


I think youíre wrong about how many folds you get. Many small pairs and Ax are going to fold here or to a double barrel. You have a bad hand with a bit of a draw. Makes sense to bluff with this hand.
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Old 03-11-2018, 10:10 AM   #13
mongidig
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Re: Call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
I think youíre wrong about how many folds you get. Many small pairs and Ax are going to fold here or to a double barrel. You have a bad hand with a bit of a draw. Makes sense to bluff with this hand.
I went from betting the flop too much too not betting enough. I didn't consider the benefits of the flop bet in relation to barelling my opponents off their hand on the turn.

I think some players fold the hands you mentioned but some are going to the river with those.

If we added one or two more players are you still betting?

Thanks!
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:11 AM   #14
maka2184
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Re: Call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
I think youíre wrong about how many folds you get. Many small pairs and Ax are going to fold here or to a double barrel. You have a bad hand with a bit of a draw. Makes sense to bluff with this hand.
+1

Thanks for this. I'm semi guilty of not double barreling enough so great to hear an experts thought process which I can 100% agree with this case.

As OnTheRail15 noted earlier, don't think this flop with this hand is worth checking flop with.

Specifically, pot is 4 ways but with flush redraw, gut shot, think it's strong enough to be able to bet call flop if only raised once.

Also, as DeathDonkey noted plenty of run outs where double barreling wins pot unimproved.
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:51 PM   #15
colt45ss
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Re: Call?

not c-betting the flop makes the turn so much harder
and makes poker's baby Jesus cry.
you have a inside straight draw and a backdoor flush draw.
if that's not c-bet range why are we playing a hand that does great multiway in the first place.

Last edited by colt45ss; 03-13-2018 at 02:54 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:18 PM   #16
OnTheRail15
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Re: Call?

I donít think checking is the worst thing ever btw. Itís not my standard play though.


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Old 03-13-2018, 06:42 PM   #17
maka2184
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Re: Call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheRail15 View Post
I donít think checking is the worst thing ever btw. Itís not my standard play though.


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Thanks OnTheRail15!

I'm sure I've checked similar spots in past especially in hour 8+ since I play bad and don't study game enough outside.

With that said, I strongly believe your default play in most LHE will be correct close to 100% of the time per yoir posts, conversation NinaWilliams told me like 10 years ago about your HUHU coaching
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