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AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river?

09-10-2010 , 09:14 PM
I openraise AQo in MP.

The button coldcalls. He plays too many hands and likes to raises or checkraise on the turn with questionable made hands and draws more often than most people do.

BB calls. He is very loose and extra-tricky on all streets. He likes to bet into preflop raisers even when he misses the flop, and he mucks to a call on the river way more often than most people do.

Flop comes T62 in three suits. BB bets, right on schedule. I raise. Both opponents call.

Turn is a K, completing the rainbow. BB checks to me. I bet. Both opponents call.

Turn is a J, giving me the nuts. I check to the button.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-10-2010 , 09:31 PM
I have no idea why you raised the flop. Hard to analyze the hand after that decision.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-10-2010 , 10:38 PM
is there any strategic merit to shoving 72o 100 bb deep and then limping AA?
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-10-2010 , 11:14 PM
Flop raise is fine and standard some % of the time. Turn is close but I think I prefer a check against these guys. River check is pretty bad, and if button is who I think then it's even worse as he won't vbet thin at all.

Last edited by Fianchetto; 09-10-2010 at 11:20 PM.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-11-2010 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker
I have no idea why you raised the flop. Hard to analyze the hand after that decision.
eh., i dont hate it if the BB is "tricky" there is value in this situation in getting the button out and getting a free river
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-11-2010 , 05:20 AM
I agree with Fianchetto and 9.5 that flop raise is not so bad. My explanation for it is that we maybe ahead of BB donking range and we want to attempt to fold BTN's 6-out hands. Once called by the BTN, I check the turn. On the river, I would bet - checking this through is a little disaster.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-11-2010 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
I agree with Fianchetto and 9.5 that flop raise is not so bad. My explanation for it is that we maybe ahead of BB donking range and we want to attempt to fold BTN's 6-out hands. Once called by the BTN, I check the turn. On the river, I would bet - checking this through is a substantial disaster.
fyp

I think I know who the BB is; OP, can you identify the player OTB? (Description only; please don't name names.)
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-11-2010 , 04:59 PM
I'm not happy with the way I played this hand.

The flop raise was a bit aggressive but not totally unreasonable. (I wasn't convinced that the BB had a pair, I thought I probably had six outs if he did, I didn't think I'd be vulnerable to redraws if I caught a pair on the turn, and I thought throwing in a raise might knock the button out and let me see the rest of the board without putting in any more chips.)

Given that the button called my raise on the flop, the turn bet was overaggressive.

The river check was based on the read I made on the turn. (I know no one really cares, but he 3bet my checkraise.)
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-13-2010 , 05:50 PM
I'm gonna jump onboard with the camp that thinks the flop raise is poor. Not terrible, but poor. Assuming your reads are spot on, the button is loose and we're less likely to get him out even if he has naked overcards and backdoor draws. It is also less likely BB is taking a naked stab at the pot in this position with this board (assuming he's aware of any of these, which I will do since if he isn't your read should be "god-awful" and not just "loose/tricky").

Overall your play seems overly responsive to BB's past "trickiness", and neglects the button's tendencies. Save the flop raise for when you've actual hit or at least picked up a good draw on the flop.

Turn bet is bad. We've picked up a draw to the nuts in a position where we have almost no chance of being ahead, but we might get to see the river for free. If button bets and BB calls we can arguably call profitably given implied odds. Check.

River is "time to move down a level and grind a couple hundred hours before taking another shot" bad.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-15-2010 , 12:08 PM
Checking the turn makes this hand substantially easier to play.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-15-2010 , 02:11 PM
So what you're saying is you bet and raised when you had nothing and checked when you had the nuts?
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-15-2010 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofball
So what you're saying is you bet and raised when you had nothing and checked when you had the nuts?
I hate this...checking with the nuts.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-15-2010 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofball
So what you're saying is you bet and raised when you had nothing and checked when you had the nuts?
This is expert strategy. The goal is to win as many pots as possible.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-15-2010 , 08:32 PM
I don't mind a flop raise as long as you're not doing it every time in this situation. My intentions with the flop raise would be to
1) attempt to fold out the button and get HU
2) take a free card on turns that don't improve your hand (obv bet ones that do).

As played, the turn is definitely a check. You're 3 way on a super dry board where nobody will fold a pair and considering the button called 2 sb cold on the flop I would say thinking you're gonna take it down on the turn is very optimistic. c/c the turn.

River is a bet 100% of the time as played. Considering your read on the button "likes to raises or checkraise on the turn" I'd say he almost never has a king here and he'll check back Tx and air a large percentage of the time.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-15-2010 , 09:55 PM
i dont hate the flop raise either, the river check is absolutely hideous. the way bb played there is an excellent chance he checks behind.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-15-2010 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDave
The river check was based on the read I made on the turn. (I know no one really cares, but he 3bet my checkraise.)
What read? You failed to mention it in your original post - so basically you set us up.

Anyway, whatever you think you saw makes the button an idiot. How could he not raise the turn if your read was correct? I can't think of a reason for him to have a strong hand and not raise. My guess is that he had Q9 and your read was off. Unless you have magical powers and read that he had Q9...
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-16-2010 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick
What read? You failed to mention it in your original post - so basically you set us up.

Anyway, whatever you think you saw makes the button an idiot. How could he not raise the turn if your read was correct? I can't think of a reason for him to have a strong hand and not raise. My guess is that he had Q9 and your read was off. Unless you have magical powers and read that he had Q9...
There is no read, up to an including his actually flashing his hand at you, that justifies checking this river. If he's got a good enough hand to bet this river he is very likely to raise/call your bet. That means we're choosing between 0 and 2 bets or 1 and 3 bets. The times you get in 4 bets are so few (results be damned) that I literally would not factor them in at all.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-17-2010 , 03:27 PM
I am guessing both players had AQ.

I think having some info on your opponent makes c/r the flop just fine.
Turn bet is fine, you need to continue your story.
I wouldn't check river here, makes no sense at all.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-24-2010 , 03:27 AM
Lots of vitriol here.

My read was this: His starting hand was lower ranking than mine, or he would have reraised preflop for sure. (I neglected to mention that A9s is in his 3betting range, for a fact.) His hand on the turn was at least one pair or an 8-out draw, or he would have folded to my bet. He knows I often bet less than top pair on the turn; and he knows I am more likely to apply pressure on the turn with a questionable hand in a 3way pot than I am to value bet/bluff on the river with a questionable hand (which may be a leak, and a point worth discussion); and he (should) know that I'm very reluctant to fold HU on the river in a fairly big pot with anything reasonable; so I infer that he'll value bet much less than a monster on the end.

His 3bet on the river was unexpected, but I won the hand (not that anyone cares).

And to those of you who criticized my play, well, see you on the felt, maybe, someday. Not that we'll reach the long run during that session or anything.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-24-2010 , 10:07 AM
Dude, dont take it personally, you butchered the hand and got super-lucky. Your turn bet is lighting monry on fire.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-24-2010 , 10:11 AM
ty
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-24-2010 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDave
His 3bet on the river was unexpected, but I won the hand (not that anyone cares).
Oh really? You rivered the absolute nuts and ended up... winning the hand? Shocking development.

Quote:
And to those of you who criticized my play, well, see you on the felt, maybe, someday. Not that we'll reach the long run during that session or anything.
The title of your thread is "misplayed on flop, turn, river?" and you posted in a strategy forum where people analyze and criticize each other's poker play. What did you expect, a circle of fellatio?

Please learn to accept that strat threads are about discussion and debate. If you want everyone to jerk you off and tell you how awesome you are, change your name to Phil Ivey and post in BBV.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-28-2010 , 04:29 AM
Well you didn't misplay it pre-flop.

Flop raise is fine depending on who you're up against.

Turn bet is bad partly because you can't really fold and all of a sudden you're putting 2 big bets in on the turn and need help.

River check is bad since your read probably means that he's raising your river anyhow and you'll get 1 or 3 bets not 0 or 2.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote
09-28-2010 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDave
Lots of vitriol here.

My read was this: His starting hand was lower ranking than mine, or he would have reraised preflop for sure. (I neglected to mention that A9s is in his 3betting range, for a fact.) His hand on the turn was at least one pair or an 8-out draw, or he would have folded to my bet. He knows I often bet less than top pair on the turn; and he knows I am more likely to apply pressure on the turn with a questionable hand in a 3way pot than I am to value bet/bluff on the river with a questionable hand (which may be a leak, and a point worth discussion); and he (should) know that I'm very reluctant to fold HU on the river in a fairly big pot with anything reasonable; so I infer that he'll value bet much less than a monster on the end.

His 3bet on the river was unexpected, but I won the hand (not that anyone cares).

And to those of you who criticized my play, well, see you on the felt, maybe, someday. Not that we'll reach the long run during that session or anything.
A truly pathetic post.
AQo misplayed on flop, turn, and river? Quote

      
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