“For this same reason, I will occasionally sit in tough lineups where I am likely breaking even to slightly losing. I wouldn't sit and play these games often but I feel like doing so occasionally has great value in the learning that takes place, both about how good players are generally evolving their games, and to learn the tendencies of some of the players I play the most against even in softer lineups”.

Very true. Your game will never improve if you don’t compete with better players.

Sure, but that doesn't justify calling for information. If you keep calling for info in tough lineups you are going to make the game stop being a tough game for everyone else except you.

I like the check call on the turn, because some hands opponents might 4 bet pre they will check the river and you've gotten to showdown, however if he bets the river i would (based upon your description) check fold. I don't feel there are that many hands that he (as described) could 4 bet pre and be bluffing on the river with? Even if he had AK he would check the river fearing you were calling all along with a pair.
With many other players however, i would definitely call the river. Certain other players will 4 bet to assume and stay in the lead and barrell all the way thru with weaker hands that don't have showdown value, such as KQs KJs KTs OJs etc...I think this is a player dependent fold on the river, but the turn seems like clear call..IMHO

There are only a small handful of players who are LHE experts in the games I play and I agree that against such players, there is rarely a spot where the value of the information received is worth more than the cost of that information. When I play against such players, I am less interested in finding ways to exploit their game and more interested in protecting myself from being exploited. Against these players, I basically make the assumption they are playing a GTO-like strategy and my best strategy is therefore to attempt to simulate GTO as well as I can to protect myself from being exploited.

It is against weaker players where I feel like it is more important to gain information. Each weak player has different tendencies that deviate from a GTO strategy and allow us to make money off them. It is against these players that we make our money. Even if we are able to notice that an expert is slightly unbalanced in one particular spot, the chances of our being able to exploit that spot, and the benefit we will get from doing so, are minimal. Good players understand poker concepts and if we make an adjustment to attempt to exploit them, they are likely to readjust to us in an effective way. If they are a really good player, there's a good chance the thing we think is unbalanced is actually part of a comprehensive and well-thought-out strategy that is superior to our own. Even if we find small edges here and there, the overall edge one good player has over another is peanuts compared with the edge all good players have over bad players.

It's easy to lump bad players into categories like nit, loose-passive, etc. The problem with doing so is that it doesn't exploit the individual tendencies of each players and that each individual player doesn't even have refined strategies that remain consistent forever. Because they are unaware of how to protect themselves by reverting to a GTO strategy, their styles can fluctuate with their emotions. By being in tune with the various emotional states they are subject to, and understanding how to best adjust to those emotional states, we can maximize our earning potential. Seeing the hands they show down can give us valuable information as to both their overall approach to poker and their current emotional state.

How is limit holdem beatable unless players are making massively amateur mistakes? Rake is so high even if it did have a potential for more than 5% edge at best

I’d spend your time scouting fish ponds. The “theory” is just cover for the validation we all seek as poker players. This isn’t brilliant chess. At least not in a fixed limit game where the strategy is play tight and occasionally click back raise weirdly for a once-a night fold

Players are making massively amateur mistakes, that's why it's beatable.

Love this post. Its funny how 'calling for information' became sort of a donk-thing. I think probably because people use it to justify bad plays. But the value of information is different for each player and each game and can change any time. Finding an exploit on a 'fish' that you play against regularly could be worth hundreds of big bets.

Perfect example of this is the donk bet. Ive found that when amateur players donk the turn (IE check call the flop then lead the turn) its almost always one type of hand. It can vary player to player, but generally players are so unbalanced here that Ill call down more liberally against it just to see.

the lowest he has UTG is AQ off.
fold with confidence.