This is a hand from the Horse tournament. Villian A is a droller and will cold call with any big cards or aces preflop and maybe some larger suited connectors every now and then. Villian B is a old dude who has played tight, uber tight but I havnt observed his play in the blinds so I cant really speak to what he is calling with getting these odds.

8 handed, I open 77 UTG + 1

Villian A calls in the CO, dude calls on the button, old dude calls in the BB.

I flop good

A74x

I bet, only the 2 villians calls.

Turn is

6x

Villian B checks, I bet, Villian A insta-raises, Villian B ponders for a while and 3 bets, I think for a while and decide to 4 bet it (I thought it was a cap because thats what the dealer said), A calls, B 5 bets, I call, B calls.

River blanks and I call.

Thoughts on 4 betting the turn? Thoughts on calling a 5 and a river bet?

This hand isn't that exciting.

River is probably a fold. 53s is known as "big gamble" and it wins all the time. Makes sense too -- he calls BB for the "pot odds," he flops a double gutter and spikes on the turn. His hesitation 3-bet is always a straight. The 4-bet is fine if it's a cap, but with a 5-bet cap I think I just call. Villain A's flush draw isn't folding anyway.

calling the river seems pretty bad to me after an old tight guy 5bets the turn.

It's fine, I mean yeah the river call is not a happy one, but who knows what these people have and the pot is ginormous. Bad nits lose their mind all the time with the second best hand.

Winner.

I begrudgingly call the river. You have middle set on the turn. It looks like somebody has a straight on the turn, but there is at least a small % chance they have a lower set or some stupid Aces up hand.

If you had known it was a 5 bet cap, would you not have 4 bet the turn?

Yea, if I had known it was a 5 bet cap, i would have just called the turn because I didn't think that the BB would cap without the nizzles and call/call gets me to show down for the same price, plus I could raise if I made a boat. I just thought that AA and 53s were not in this guys range and I was only losing to 85s which would have had to peel a gutshot on the flop so I decided to "cap." i actually sat there and thought about this before doing it which is shocking for me.

BB ended up having a set of fours and villian A overcalled the river with A7.

man i wish i had responded to this thread before the results got posted..

i don't understand why all of you think this is a fold or a sad river call. i would raise before i would fold on the river (but prefer calling and wouldn't be sad nor overly happy about it). "uber tight" old dudes don't play 53s or 85s, folding is ludicrous

Yes they do. After a raise and two calls, and in the BB, of course they do.

It's still not a fold.

Yeah you're probably right. But it's way more of a crying call than a river raise.

When playing against uber-tight guys, we need to make allowances for the fact that some of these players don't think we can raise in UTG with 77. He could be overly committed to us having AK or AQ and think his flopped set is the nuts, although I'd expect him to slow down in fear we've got AA at some point.

I'm calling here, expecting to be good the 4% of the time we need.

Even if we only win 1% of the time I still don't like folding in a huge pot for 1 bet on the river.

Do you see why this second statement is inccorect in light of the first?

Of course I do.

And it isn't an incorrect statement, it is my admission that in large pots, closing the action and holding a strong hand, I will forgo absolute odds if my estimates of the numbers are razor thin and showdown my hand. If you can accurate gauge between 1% and 4% in a position like this, my hat is off to you. Me, I accept that for equity close to the cost of a soda, give or take, I can see his hand.

Reasonable. Ihearby name this the Howard Beale Theorem.

This is also from a tourney. So there are other things to consider. Those chips = power especially if it is in the later stages of the tourney.