here's a hand i think i could have played differently on every street

i raise 77 utg1, utg2 cc's (he can have suited connectors weighted toward higher cards, many pairs, big offsuit aces as well as many suited aces. his 3b range in this spot is AK/QQ+, and JJ/TT only sometimes), lj cc's (her 3b range here is also pretty tight), pretty good button calls (he'd have a range of what you'd expect a good player to call with here), bb calls

flop is 862r
i bet, utg2 calls, lj calls, bn raises, bb folds, i call, utg2 calls, lj calls

turn Jr
checked to bn who bets, i c/r, utg2 and lj both fold, bn calls

river 2
i check

I like it

this line is terrible. this is FR ranges are narrow. y are u cr turn? i mean i peel flop cuz of BD stuff and u could be ahead but after flop u have a bluff catcher.

Agree with this. If button and you are both good you shouldn't be cbetting this flop with airballs and he should know that & not make a "lemme see where I am" raise w/ 6x. I'd think his range is a lot of sets and OESD's which means his turn bet is bad news.

I kind of like it. I wouldn't hate 3betting the flop either.

Unless you think you can confidently Ch/F the river, not fond of the river check. I think he'll play close to perfect against your river check, whereas if you bet, you're probably getting a call from his entire SD-range and never getting bluff raised.

I think we have to barrel this river to have a chance of getting a pair of 8s or 99 to fold.

I don't understand the turn check raise, would like to learn your thought process leading to this. The turn hits cold callers' ranges and now some gut-shot+over card hands run into TP. It is hard to believe anyone folds made hands (even as weak as second pair) to your check raise in this big pot, especially given your (likely) aggressive image. But I guess all this is rather obvious, so like I said - really curious what made you get out of line here and fight against the world, pretty much, OOP. I check/fold this 100% of the time.

On the flop, it is close, IMO between line you took and just check / calling one bet. I think bet/calling is better though.

Checking flop is awful.

I only like c/c river if there are hands villian bets you can beat. If he's giving up the ace/x or little pairs. If not you should bet.

Why? Why awful?

Disagree w flop check being awful. If it gets bet and a bunch of calls we can take one off preferably closing it out. If its checked to a LP thief we can attempt to isolate a worse hand w a c/r and if it goes bet and raise behind us we can be done w it.

if i'm gonna run the iso play i'd rather 3-bet the flop. that is, unless you know the trapped players are always taking two more to the face with J9. i also prefer a flop check.

river play looks super ugly but that's somewhat mitigated by it setting up opportunities to make sexy in future hands.

So, you view the turn play as a bluff?

I'd just check and fold the turn

I like flop check for reasons Loopshop mentioned. 77 will be hard to play 5way OOP; best chances of thinning the field is to c/r a late-position stabber. It also helps us balance here (though balance is less important multiway). If cold-callers were more foldy on the flop, it would favor cbetting.

If you thought you were good OTF, then 3b flop.

I found it interesting that I read as many posts as I did before getting to my thought process on this hand. As played, the jack is a bad card for our hand and it was stated that the button should be giving us some respect. He's raising three hands and knows he has to win on a LATER street against three opponents if he is bluffing. Nothing lost check folding this turn.

As played, betting river is suicide as better hands are never folding with the board pairing 2s. After our check raise, they might check back some better hands though.

I never want it to come back two bets to me, so I feel i'm continuing to the turn, as the EP PFR with a pretty good flop for my hand i'm leading and going from there. I don't want to give the k/q's of the world infinite odds draw. prefer a vulnerable hand such as this one doesn't let it check through, and if someone in the back raises, can reevaluate if we need to 3! or c/f turn.


Anyway that's my two cents. I think a big thing that sometimes gets overlooked in discussions on these hands, not just east coast VS west coast but limits. A 15 game plays eons different than a 40 or an 80/160. The Dynamics are such that one play isn't necessarily right for another. Even before you get into the specific players.

I'm assuming it's 20/40 ish and that no one would have cc with better.

Lot of really strong adjectives thrown around here... It's a really tough spot honestly. We have a hand that probably isn't but could be best in a big pot. If our hand is best it's pretty vulnerable...

I think we should 3bet the flop bet turn and chk the river. I also think we should take this line very often after 3 betting the flop. River equilibrium strategy is pretty fascinating as I can imagine all three options with this hand.

i agree with 3betting the flop. i think bn expects me to bet most of my ace highs on this dry a flop so he should have a wide enough raising range that i'll want to blow the other two people out of the pot and get it hu.

in the heat of the moment, though, i didn't think it through and just called. i realized my mistake as the turn card was being dealt so i improvised and c/r'ed. i'm still not sure how much i like the play but my thought process was bn can have a lot of draws or worse value hands and the pot is big so i want to do what i can to win it. also, (and this would just be a bonus) i know it sounds ridiculous but i wouldn't be surprised if one of the ccers folded a jack.

as played, i agree river should be a bet

p.s. this is a west coast 80 hand

bakku, would you bet AK on this flop? i wouldn't and i wouldn't expect a decent button to think i do. 5-ways is a lot of ways.

When you saw that BTN could be raising with draws, do naked overcards count? The flop was 862r so I can see some straight draws/gutshots and some BD stuff.

In your scenario, the flop 3bet gets us heads up with btn I assume? If it doesn't, would you shift more to a c/f turn line?

i would so that's why bn would expect me to

I'd check a ton of stuff on this flop, and even if I didn't check 100% here, I'd still check 77.

Turn/river seems fine given flop play.

naked overcards don't count, he's not raising something like QJ


so let's say i 3b the flop and utg2 calls the 3b. what kind of hands do you think are in his range and does the turn J connect with any of that range?

Ok, makes sense, I wouldn't think naked overs would raise here.

Yeah, thinking about it more now it seems like he'd call with lots of stuff that doesn't necessarily connect with the J.