7 handed UTG+1 excitedly raises out of turn, causing UTG to say 'nevermind, then' and put away the eight chips he'd just grabbed to open. UTG+1 has been playing pretty TAG but also has a limping range. MP calls (third cc in two orbits), CO calls (total unknown). I call JTcc OTB. SB, a pretty solid lagtag who's been in my game a few days now, 3!, UTG+1 4!, MP calls, and CO caps (after obligatory 'let's gamble!' shout). We call.

Flop: Jh ,9c, 8s

SB bets. Call, fold, call, I call.

Turn: Jd

SB bets, 1 fold, MP raises, I call, SB folds!

River: 9s

Bet, call. Passive but can't don't see how I'm getting much more value outta this if I am good. IDK if it makes a big difference, but SB and CO were on the 80 list, so their action could be lighter then you'd think.

You have to raise the river. If he happens to have the very unlikely 99, so be it, you're going to lose two extra bets. But you're also going to get sigh-called by worse sometimes, and obviously you chop a lot.

You should raise the flop. You have a ton of equity in this multiway pot, so you should push your equity edge while you have it. You often will have the option of checking back bad turn cards, as a bonus. As played, I think the turn call is fine. It feels weird to not put in a raise at any point so far, but if you are ahead your hand is not really vulnerable at all, and I think you are frequently behind, and keeping the SB in is a better way to get the extra bet.

I think my hand is vulnerable if I'm ahead... Remember, the opener had a limping range, which likely contains many of BB his worse hands. Also, MP called the 4 bet instead of capping himself. This all makes the hands I beat (overpairs) less likely and hands lime KJ suited, sets, and straights more likely. I'm up against capped ranges here, that's what stayed my hand. Of course if no I thought I played it well I wouldn't bother posting it, so of course you're right that was missed value.

I assume your post above is about the flop play, not the river, unless you mis-posted the hand? The board is double paired on the river, so none of the above justifies just calling on the river.

On the flop, even if you just had the OESD and bdfd you could easily justify raising, so having top pair is just a bonus.

I’d probably three bet pre but whatever. Rest is fine but you should raise/call the river in case he has some dumb overpair

I play every street different except the turn. I would 3bet pre because of obligatory gambol. I would raise flop for value with straight and backdoor flush draw plus top pair which can just be good already. Turn is fine. River I raise.

Not raising the river is pretty criminal. Not raising the flop not as bad but probably kinda bad. The rest is fine

I did mis post the river or the turn. I don't have the HH anymore, but it was coordinated, a 6 or 5 (pretty sure 6). Lol I didn't call after filling up. But seeing now that the turn or river completes straight draws, villain had elected not to cap, it's pretty close. I'm second guessing every passive action, mostly flop and river. I know for a fact a missed a ton of value and possibly wasted my flop equity. Just can't see the best alternative. Raising the flop, risking turn and river raises (maybe even bet 3 bet) seems overly spewy given how vulnerable I am.

+1.

Think rest of hand is pretty standard.

I'd just call the river then.

Pre flop I like just a call given your read that he was excited to raise and has a limping range.

I'd raise the flop

With the double paired river I'd raise. He could have a straight, 88's, 98s etc. It's hard for him to put you on a Jack given how you've played it so far.

In the updated version I just call.

Can you just give us the new board so we can understand what hand you actually have? If you put the wrong turn or river there, you can either have trips which is very strong or just top pair middling kicker which is very marginal in this spot (though still should call with it).

I did post the correct river (too late to edit OP).

Jc9h8s Jd 6s

Just trips. Apologies for the confusion.

You really call with with just top pair Q kicker? To me that call would serve more as a bluff catcher. Nobody from the biggest winners to the the losing regs in the lives 40 and 80 games I play are value betting worse in this spot, ever. BTW I'm not considering GTO stuff like keeping my range symmetric, either in the actual hand or the mis-posted one (equally irrelevant to this type of game imo).

If the turn comes a 6 you call because you have an oesd in a massive pot. Then you call river because fur coats. I play in LA though so games are really aggressive and you’ll get run over folding top pair a bunch on the river.

Also on the new board it’s an easy just call river and the hand makes much more sense now. Though I still raise flop to get value now if I’m ahead and possibly take a free turn card or keep betting my hand on good turns.

Flop is where I would normally raise (still think it's close, though). In LA players raise and reraise alot lighter then Vegas, I'd play it (and almost everything) differently. I do think the cc/c/cc line should exist for more then just beginners who lolslowpplay.

I 3-bet PF but other than that I like it. If you raise the river and get 3-bet, you beat nothing but now the pot is absolutely massive, so I like calling here.

When I play in vegas, I find the game to be very aggressive too. But I do think the 5bet cap does incentivize some tighter play. I just disagree that TJss should be played passively because it’s such a nice hand to give us some balance on our tight playing range. I don’t think preflop is that big a deal though, I just like to mix it into my 3bet range multiway to be harder to play against.

The flop is an interesting spot to get in there and pump up the pot because we have so much going for us even against strong hands, and the turn is often going to want to make us play either very aggressive or very passive. So raising with the idea of playing poker on future streets makes a lot of sense to me, and it also plays really well with our entire range that is going to include a lot of nutted hands on this board after just calling pre. If you had 3bet pre I think I like your line. Because you didn’t, your range interacts with this board much differently, and you smash this board quite a lot given your line.

+1

I see Raise Flop > call flop if I'm intending on trying to tilt TAG UTG+1 and/or merge ranges vs SB & UTG+1 and/or plan for future hands.

UTG+1, MP, CO, sounds like fish so would intend to at least SD if I'm OP.

I'm going to assume SB is Ninefingershuffle and UTG+1 is a solid TAG with open limp range in game I play.

NOTE: Any opponents with open limp range except SB in SBvsBB hands, I consider as -EV / fish.

Never/rarely cold calling pf in game I play on BTN.

As played, my default would still be to call flop fyi if called BTN on accident instead of 3bet preflop as OP (ex: forgot to announce raise and did not put in enough chips preflop on BTN).