fish limps utg. tight passive regular asian guy raises in lp. i call KTs from the bb. flop KhJ8. i c/r. fish folds. turn 7h. i bet, he calls. river Qh. .... c/c, b/f, c/f?

Bet/fold.

+1.

c/f?

Yeah, not ahead of many reasonable raising hands at this point. TT, 99 are about it. His preflop range has to be really wide to even find another hand you are ahead of.
Check/fold is reasonable.

Edit: I suppose AJ is in the range and AQ although less likely.

The game was 8 handed and because of UTG's limp he has a fairly wide range. Final board is: KJ87Q with 3 hearts.

I can't think of a lot of worse hands that will call if I bet the river. (TT, 99, K9s, QTs, 89s,)

There are a huge number of hands that are now ahead of me. So many I can't even list them all.

Joker, you sure this isn't a check fold spot?

No, I'm not sure about anything. But it's close, and I think it tips in favor of b/f. He could easily have AJ here and may pay you off, and he could even have AQ and made a loose turn call hoping he had 7-10 outs. I don't know exactly how tight or passive this opponent is, and it's probably another case where live hands don't translate well online because you get so much info at the table, but on paper it seems like a spot where you have top pair and might as well let the villain decide whether or not to make a bad river call -- since the more poker I see, the more I'm amazed at what people will call the river with.

If he has a better hand than you (played AK passively, or KQ) then so be it. He often won't raise you and when he does it's a trivially easy fold, so I would just go ahead and bet the river. But I can certainly imagine circumstances and specific opponents against whom I would agree it's closer to a c/f.

ok thanks.
I check called. giving money away again.

c/c is only the second worst play you could have made on the river, bet/call being the worst. So don't feel too bad.

Clarkmeister amirite?

I think the clarkmeister is when the 4 flush hits the board.

IMO your best river line is b/f. With your description of the player here, c/c and c/f are less optimal since his tightness won't let him bet a hand worse then your TP. But when he does bet you will be getting 8:1 so you you might be forced to call. The b/f is the best option because you gain max value when he calls with the worst hand and fold when he does raise when you know his tight passive nature would only let him raise with the nuts. He will call you with a hand that can beat your often but the bet on your part takes away the guess work out of c/c, c/f.

whats clarkmeister?

3 Classic Theorems (sort of):
Clarkmeister = On the river, out of position, Heads-up, you should bet (lead out) at any 4-flush board.
Zeebo Theorem = no player is good enough to fold a full-house on the river
CDC ism = "I like to bet because they like to call"

I nominate one more that has unofficial Standing

Bison's Theorem = Tight players on your left and loose players on your right is optimal.

No specific strategy contribution because everyone else covered it better, so I'd thought to contribute with the above.

Good post guys!

Wow you make me feel old.

I totally misread the original post. I thought the board 4-flushed.

Oops.

with anything? Literally anything? That's really suboptimal.

yeah, this was back in 2003. when everybody sucked and fish would always fold if a 4 flush hit the board.

Oh good, it's not just me that thinks this doesn't work very well anymore. However, I used it twice on Sat. night to good effect.

And yes, Strictly, with anything.

from what i remember, clark made this one up too, but glad people still remember me.

i did come up with something similar though, "betting is underrated."

Maybe, but Clark has slipped out of quite a few c/r attempts by me...

Clark actually said, "People love to call and I like to let them."

Sounds like you don't cc enough.