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15/30 line check 15/30 line check

10-29-2011 , 07:23 PM
A fairly fishy 15/30 game, villain is a young Asian who I've seen try to get tricky with turn check raises on paired boards, holding bottom pair and turning them into bluffs (I'm pretty sure anyway, lol).

So this hand is dealt six or seven handed, UTG+1 limps, I raise CO with AKh, and villain in BB and limper call. Flop is Qc65h. Checked to me and I bet, BB calls and limper folds. Turn is Ad, and on this card I am check/raised by bb. I think he can do this as a bluff, or with any ace, and obv anything better.

So my question is, should I just call turn and call all rivers where I don't improve? Or should I 3! and check river if I don't improve? Or bet my one pair for value again? Obv betting all As, Ks, and hearts on river.
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10-30-2011 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bighurt52235
A fairly fishy 15/30 game, villain is a young Asian who I've seen try to get tricky with turn check raises on paired boards, holding bottom pair and turning them into bluffs (I'm pretty sure anyway, lol).

So this hand is dealt six or seven handed, UTG+1 limps, I raise CO with AKh, and villain in BB and limper call. Flop is Qc65h. Checked to me and I bet, BB calls and limper folds. Turn is Ad, and on this card I am check/raised by bb. I think he can do this as a bluff, or with any ace, and obv anything better.

So my question is, should I just call turn and call all rivers where I don't improve? Or should I 3! and check river if I don't improve? Or bet my one pair for value again? Obv betting all As, Ks, and hearts on river.
If you reraise turn, do it for value, and bet the river as well. Don't FSDR with TPTK. (In fact, just don't FSDR; but that's another discussion.)

What range of hands do you put the villain on? How foldy on the flop are they? Is the turn checkraise likely to be any ace, or is the villain likely to show up here with just A5, A6, or AQ? (Does the villain ever reraise their big blind HU OOP? If so, you can discount AQ here.)

At least call the villain down. If you think they are liable to have a worse ace here, it might be worthwhile to call the turn and raise the river. Obviously bet or raise if the river improves your hand.
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10-30-2011 , 12:36 AM
clean up your post. Is the flop Qc6h5h and we have AhKh? Have you actually seen his cards when he CRd the turns? what does pretty sure mean?

straight calldown seems fine and turn 3 bet pretty spewy
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10-30-2011 , 12:41 AM
Best way to deal with a bully is to punch him in the nose--hard. He'll be less likely to be tricky or aggressive if you show him what he can expect if he messes with you. Especially if he sees you're capable of 3-betting on the turn with "just" on pair.
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10-30-2011 , 01:21 AM
cd
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10-30-2011 , 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by surfdoc
clean up your post. Is the flop Qc6h5h and we have AhKh? Have you actually seen his cards when he CRd the turns? what does pretty sure mean?

straight calldown seems fine and turn 3 bet pretty spewy

You are correct about the cards. I thought AKh meant suited in hearts, I guess I'll specify each card in future posts.
Yes, I did see his cards on previous CRd turns. CRd me on 7769 with A6, I show him KK on river, and later he c/r 883T and fires 5d river when flush draw completes with 53, I show him Q8 on river.
I say pretty sure because I have a hard time imagining hes trying to get me to call him with worse. And there is a decent chance, imo, he's not even considering what his bets are supposed to do.
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10-30-2011 , 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by surfdoc
straight calldown seems fine and turn 3 bet pretty spewy
why do you think it's spewy? We have quite an equity with TPTK + nut FD vs a guy whose turn c/r range is proven to contain FOS hands
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10-30-2011 , 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gaming_mouse
cd
Don't do that. 3b the turn and bet the river unimproved but just call the river if he bets.
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11-02-2011 , 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bighurt52235
Or should I 3! and check river if I don't improve?
I like this, but b/f the river unimproved.
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11-02-2011 , 10:26 PM
Is he capable of folding a ****ty ace here? You are wa/wb so best value line is call down. If he is doing this with ****ty aces he won't fold as well as nonsense, you can call and raise river.
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11-03-2011 , 01:00 AM
If he's turning bad pairs into bluffs why do you want him to fold?

Btw, if your hand is good enough to 3b turn you could also consider calling and raising the river.
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11-03-2011 , 02:03 PM
I ended up 3!ing the turn (4valu), which I think is fine against the villain, but the fact that I checked back a 7 spade river makes it bad imo, which is why I was looking for feed back.

He ended up showing me Q6.
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11-03-2011 , 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 9.5fingershuffle
Is he capable of folding a ****ty ace here? You are wa/wb so best value line is call down. If he is doing this with ****ty aces he won't fold as well as nonsense, you can call and raise river.
Only in poor shape against a set, even then still have a flush draw. Hard to imagine we're ever way behind. Unless 12 outs is considered way behind, if he has AQ.
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11-03-2011 , 02:26 PM
Do not 3 bet turn, if he bluffs here a lot give him a chance to barrel river.

I think raising the river in position is fine even unimproved based on your reads, he could also easily have just an ace and will probably call, however just calling UI may have some read based value for future hands so you can see what he C/R with for a third time. Note that even really bad players will eventually realize your not folding to his bluffs and he may adjust. But some can't help themselves to bluff/semibluff every chance they get.
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11-08-2011 , 06:00 AM
cd.....If you hit on the river get as many bets in as possible
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11-08-2011 , 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by armor32
why do you think it's spewy? We have quite an equity with TPTK + nut FD vs a guy whose turn c/r range is proven to contain FOS hands
One reason I can think of is that OP says he's been turning a lot of marginal made hands into bluffs. If he gets 3 bet here he could fold instead of continuing on with his hopeless ideas.
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