" I thnik preflop misstakes is more important then anything else because if u dont do this right, u normally arent very good"
Lol.

Same here, except my database is way too small to have any useful results and I'm pretty sure heisenb3rg and Tryptamean have me listed as a fish.

ok, genius. heres a prop bet. you play 45/10 for 100k hands at 10/20. ill bet 50k that you arent up money.

yw

Dang I accidently said something wrong in response to miles. X is really 50. (I would have been content to not say anything, but I don't want to lie)

Since there's interest I guess I'll just post the rest of the raw data for anyone that's interested. Sorry about not formatting this.

The last digit of every experiment corresponds to the number of fish at the table, filtered 5-6 handed.

Ugh, I did this in a weird order.

Experiments 0-5 define "fish" as VPIP > 40
Experiments 11-15 use VPIP > 50
Experiments 21-25 use VPIP > 45

The rest aren't my results. It's the composite results for every TAG at my table who is not me. Unfortunately it's hard to get both a large sample size and tight definition for TAG. So I defined TAG as a VPIP of 18-35, a PFR of 14-24, and a sample of more than 30 hands. There are at most 4 fish at the table because I take up one of the seats and we hope I'm not a fish. I repeated the same experiments with the not-me TAGs, except I did the numbering intuitively here...

I wrote experiments 30 to 60 kind of quickly, I don't think I could have done much wrong but I'm not certain...

Experiments 30-34 define fish as VPIP > 40
Experiments 40-44 use VPIP > 45
Experiments 50-54 use VPIP > 50

Columns are # of fish, BB won, # of hands, BB/100

0 0.9498859649120523 11994 per trial 7.919676212373289E-5
0 0.0 0 per trial NaN
1 597.9385000000117 54132 per trial 0.01104593401315325
1 0.0 0 per trial NaN
2 275.8733333333395 86867 per trial 0.0031758128326446118
2 0.0 0 per trial NaN
3 749.5289716703516 62525 per trial 0.011987668479333892
3 0.0 0 per trial NaN
4 332.93611111111244 21208 per trial 0.015698609539377236
4 0.0 0 per trial NaN
5 1.8623333333333174 3228 per trial 5.769310202395655E-4
5 0.0 0 per trial NaN
6 0.0 0 per trial NaN
6 0.0 0 per trial NaN
7 0.0 0 per trial NaN
7 0.0 0 per trial NaN
8 0.0 0 per trial NaN
8 0.0 0 per trial NaN
9 0.0 0 per trial NaN
9 0.0 0 per trial NaN
10 371.5398859649068 68168 per trial 0.005450356266355281
10 0.0 0 per trial NaN
11 591.3950000000073 102254 per trial 0.005783587928100683
11 0.0 0 per trial NaN
12 664.3698888889109 51699 per trial 0.01285072997328596
12 0.0 0 per trial NaN
13 279.34969389256725 14833 per trial 0.01883298684639434
13 0.0 0 per trial NaN
14 79.32633333333312 2784 per trial 0.02849365421455931
14 0.0 0 per trial NaN
15 -26.891666666666666 216 per trial -0.12449845679012345
15 0.0 0 per trial NaN
16 0.0 0 per trial NaN
16 0.0 0 per trial NaN
17 0.0 0 per trial NaN
17 0.0 0 per trial NaN
18 0.0 0 per trial NaN
18 0.0 0 per trial NaN
19 0.0 0 per trial NaN
19 0.0 0 per trial NaN
20 165.32605263158393 30728 per trial 0.0053803063209966135
20 0.0 0 per trial NaN
21 495.132166666678 87248 per trial 0.005674997325631281
21 0.0 0 per trial NaN
22 232.0905555555449 77782 per trial 0.002983859447629849
22 0.0 0 per trial NaN
23 952.8400827814697 34599 per trial 0.02753952665630422
23 0.0 0 per trial NaN
24 168.3252777777782 8570 per trial 0.019641222611175988
24 0.0 0 per trial NaN
25 -54.624999999999986 1027 per trial -0.05318889970788704
25 0.0 0 per trial NaN
26 0.0 0 per trial NaN
26 0.0 0 per trial NaN
27 0.0 0 per trial NaN
27 0.0 0 per trial NaN
28 0.0 0 per trial NaN
28 0.0 0 per trial NaN
29 0.0 0 per trial NaN
29 0.0 0 per trial NaN
30 -362.07716666666556 10166 per trial -0.035616483048068616
30 0.0 0 per trial NaN
31 -350.30716666666285 43496 per trial -0.008053778891545495
31 0.0 0 per trial NaN
32 156.80146171803625 59994 per trial 0.002613619057206325
32 0.0 0 per trial NaN
33 -163.04805555555168 31971 per trial -0.005099873496467164
33 0.0 0 per trial NaN
34 -1.0433333333336676 5431 per trial -1.921070398331187E-4
34 0.0 0 per trial NaN
35 0.0 0 per trial NaN
35 0.0 0 per trial NaN
36 0.0 0 per trial NaN
36 0.0 0 per trial NaN
37 0.0 0 per trial NaN
37 0.0 0 per trial NaN
38 0.0 0 per trial NaN
38 0.0 0 per trial NaN
39 0.0 0 per trial NaN
39 0.0 0 per trial NaN
40 -451.326833333331 23574 per trial -0.019145110432397177
40 0.0 0 per trial NaN
41 -1121.855476190487 63961 per trial -0.017539680058011712
41 0.0 0 per trial NaN
42 990.3647156862736 47257 per trial 0.02095699506287478
42 0.0 0 per trial NaN
43 9.550833333332571 14676 per trial 6.507790496955963E-4
43 0.0 0 per trial NaN
44 -146.40749999999954 1590 per trial -0.092080188679245
44 0.0 0 per trial NaN
45 0.0 0 per trial NaN
45 0.0 0 per trial NaN
46 0.0 0 per trial NaN
46 0.0 0 per trial NaN
47 0.0 0 per trial NaN
47 0.0 0 per trial NaN
48 0.0 0 per trial NaN
48 0.0 0 per trial NaN
49 0.0 0 per trial NaN
49 0.0 0 per trial NaN
50 -838.6739761904785 48475 per trial -0.01730116505808104
50 0.0 0 per trial NaN
51 -560.8429509804159 68567 per trial -0.008179487960395174
51 0.0 0 per trial NaN
52 930.6056666666793 28122 per trial 0.03309173126615032
52 0.0 0 per trial NaN
53 -235.87099999999901 5411 per trial -0.04359101829606339
53 0.0 0 per trial NaN
54 -14.892000000000015 483 per trial -0.030832298136645994
54 0.0 0 per trial NaN
55 0.0 0 per trial NaN
55 0.0 0 per trial NaN
56 0.0 0 per trial NaN

Is this results from an SQL query in pokertracker?

If so , could you post the query? (not the results, the query itself)

This is very interesting stuff. I plan on looking at this in my database once I get back in the states.

My table selection is woefully lacking, but I've never put much effort into it because I still win. Still, it would be much less stressful to up my winrate and reduce my swings.

After reading this thread, I've started to wonder what my edge vs the regs is, if I even have one. I think it would be pretty easy to look at my wins/losses versus players with >1000 hands. Not sure if that would actually be useful for anything, since I would be inclined to get involved in multiway pots with regs+fish when I have an inferior holdings. But the fish would be removed from that study because of low sample size. I think its a pretty safe assumption that greater sample size --> less likely to be a fish.

disjunction - this is great, thanks again.

This gave me the idea of doing this myself, then comparing that $/hr to the $/hr of whatever other game I would be playing instead! Wow! I'm a genius!

Also I'm glad you've shown us to avoid those horrible tables with 5 fish

What is with this chasing the fish rubbish?

Those huge VPIPs hardly exist, (6 months ago) Haven't played stars since.

Seriously, if you cant beat those regs, how can you win? You TAGs have to realise that the new fish are YOU, i.e the weaker pro's are the new fodder, only the strong survive.

And Nanonoko... he's the same name at a few sites right? I'm sure he cobbles together some kind of income (a fantastic effort these days), so give him a break...

I have not played this freshjuice character...

Heisenberg is what he says goo and v bad.

A good player from 10/20 -30/60 that i remember is that guy with the surf or aqua in his name, damn mind blank, but i remember being scared of him lol.

JT

Well, by beating non-regs... but anyways, the point is not that I don't think I can beat them, but I think there may be more profitable games for me to be playing.

try to establish a fishy tableimage towards the regs and its profitable. I know because i know several of u regs sit down and target me when I sit down...

I dont think a fishy image will be beneficial to you. You would prefer that regs get out of your way, rather isolate you more often in position and defend theirs blinds more liberally.

don't tap the glass.

JT

QFT. even if you are "tricking" me and your not really a fish, there is no way you have substantial edge against me.