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04-30-2013 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaming_mouse
no idea why anyone would get into it if they didn't like it. very little glamour, still considered nerdy and uninteresting by most normal people (though a bit less so than it was), and there are much easier way to make money if that's what you care about. strange indeed.
I wouldn't call it glamour, but I think there is a certain fun image that has been built. When people think programmer, they think Google, and Google has built a reputation of being a fun company. It's considered cool to work at a tech startup.
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04-30-2013 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splashpot
I wouldn't call it glamour, but I think there is a certain fun image that has been built. When people think programmer, they think Google, and Google has built a reputation of being a fun company. It's considered cool to work at a tech startup.
Well, that assumes you are working at a startup rather than an established company. And even given that, I think "cool" is a stretch. Withing the tech community, sure, it's cool. Within the world at large, not really ime, unless you have already made boatloads of cash.
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04-30-2013 , 05:12 PM
In my experience, even non-tech people are far more intrigued if you say you work for a startup rather than finance or accounting.
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04-30-2013 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splashpot
In my experience, even non-tech people are far more intrigued if you say you work for a startup rather than finance or accounting.
well if you want to be cool, why are we talking about accounting? obviously that's not cool either, so fine, you are cooler than an accountant if you are a programmer at a startup. i'll agree with you there. i still think if being cool is your objective, you are choosing the wrong profession.

EDIT: I guess I should I clarify that *I*, personally, find it cool obviously. But I have some self-awareness too and realize it's a nerdy pov.
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04-30-2013 , 05:24 PM
I used to be an accountant so I just wanted to confirm that I'm moving up the coolness ladder.
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04-30-2013 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splashpot
I used to be an accountant so I just wanted to confirm that I'm moving up the coolness ladder.
oh for sure. haven't you noticed a massive uptick in the pussy flowing your way?
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04-30-2013 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
In regards to the low attrition rate: it would be for the same reason so many people got high marks on the uPenn Calculus class. For someone like me, who taught himself calculus, that class was very difficult. Here, the professor offered a unique class and that attracted many people with a strong math background, so there was a higher-than-normal baseline of "average student."

The same applies here. You have the creator of Scala offering a course in how to write good programs in Scala, so yes, word spreads across Reddit and HN and people who are already familiar with FP and / or Java are going to join in. This is not a collection of people taking this as their intro course or a follow-up to an intro course.
Good point, but regardless, the high completion rate suggests that many found it interesting and useful. That was all I was trying to get across.

Quote:
In regards to SICP: that book is not about FP. Yes, there are elements of FP, but it is about procedural and OO as well. It is about data structures and concentration of thinking about programming in the abstract. It is about building elegant systems and building interpreters and compilers. I suspect that Scala (like Clojure), is too opaque for the book to really make sense. The exercises require you to peel away the abstractions by forcing you to create your own in order to gain a deep understanding of how every decision you make impacts the systems and programs you are creating. There are tons of ideas in the book, even covering "modern" concepts like Actor Models and concurrency. It is a whirlwind tour of everything you'd ever need to continue learning. I couldn't possibly write about all the book has to offer, but if you use that book as a guide to another class and not do the exercises, you are cheating yourself.

Its ironic that this topic ends up on the front page of HN: I think the post and the discussion summarizes everything I'd like to say: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5631441
Nice post. I browsed the first two chapters of SICP and can say that Odersky's class is very loyal to that part of the book, even using the same examples and exercises. However, SICP covers more ground as you mentioned. The class is only 7 weeks, so I doubt there will be time to go into concurrency, compilers, etc. I do think that Scala does a fine job on functional and data abstraction.
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05-01-2013 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaming_mouse
ballin,

not sure if it's possible to map ";;" to esc, but turns out it's possible to map a single key or a key combo. i did:

Code:
bind "Control-Space":vi-movement-mode
And you can ofc put in .bashrc or .inputrc to apply it to all terminals.
This is so so close to what I want but I can't seem to bind double semicolon specifically

Thanks for the tip though.
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05-01-2013 , 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytorr
Good point, but regardless, the high completion rate suggests that many found it interesting and useful. That was all I was trying to get across.
I have no doubt that the Scala class is top-notch. Are you taking it?

Quote:
Nice post. I browsed the first two chapters of SICP and can say that Odersky's class is very loyal to that part of the book, even using the same examples and exercises. However, SICP covers more ground as you mentioned. The class is only 7 weeks, so I doubt there will be time to go into concurrency, compilers, etc. I do think that Scala does a fine job on functional and data abstraction.
I'm sure he is following the book. I just feel strongly about doing the exercises in the book. The real gems it offers is left to your own discovery, but if he is actually forcing you to do Scala answers from the book, there is likely something there, though I'm not sure how effective it would be, thus I have no opinion on that idea.
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05-01-2013 , 05:10 AM
Yes, I'm taking the class. Odersky adapted the material in the book in his own slides, using Scala syntax instead of Scheme. He works out a subset of the examples in the video lectures and assigns some as homework. I'll probably take a deeper look at the exercises in the book once the class is done for additional practice and understanding.
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05-01-2013 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
In regards to the low attrition rate: it would be for the same reason so many people got high marks on the uPenn Calculus class. For someone like me, who taught himself calculus, that class was very difficult. Here, the professor offered a unique class and that attracted many people with a strong math background, so there was a higher-than-normal baseline of "average student."

The same applies here. You have the creator of Scala offering a course in how to write good programs in Scala, so yes, word spreads across Reddit and HN and people who are already familiar with FP and / or Java are going to join in. This is not a collection of people taking this as their intro course or a follow-up to an intro course.
Well, that explains a lot. I've only heard of this course through discussions in other Coursera courses, and I dimly recall someone mentioning that the median level of education was really high (by that I mean at least bachelor's degree, maybe even more than that)
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05-01-2013 , 11:17 PM
our code base at work has a lot of tests, but many of them are not very good. for example:

Code:
    def test_correctly_loads_uri(self):
        """Function should load URI correctly"""
        uri_reference = self.get_uri_reference()
        assert urlopen(uri_reference) # should produce no errors
on its face, this looks kind of dumb. why are we testing urlopen? isn't that a built-in module? regardless, we're not testing it very well since all we're doing is asserting that calling it on a uri returns something truthy.

but of course, it gets dumber. for one thing, this is testing a wrapper around urlopen (util.urlopen.urlopen ldo), which looks like this:

Code:
import urllib2

def urlopen(uri, data=None, *args, **kwargs):
    """Return a more verbose error report and raises IOError"""
    uri_component = 'URI: %s\nData: %s\n' % (uri, data)
    error_string = None

    try:
        response = urllib2.urlopen(uri, data, *args, **kwargs)
        return response
    except urllib2.HTTPError, e:
        error_string = 'Server failed to handle request.\nCode: %s\n' % e.code
        message = error_string + uri_component
        raise IOError(message)
    except urllib2.URLError, e:
        error_string = 'Unable to load from URI. \nReason: %s\n' % e.reason        message = error_string + uri_component
        raise IOError(message)
as you can see, this wrapper adds a ton of value: it parses a few pieces out of the exception objet, then throws the rest away while helpfully coercing the original exception into an IOError.

the real magnum opus, though, is this function:

Code:
    def get_uri_reference(self):
        uri_reference = 'http://www.random.com'
        return uri_reference
here is the current landing page for www.random.com:



coworker: so we're just generating revenue for some squatter?
me: hundreds of times per day since early 2011


this same guy also wrote this test, which was already infamous:

Code:
    def test_URLError(self):
        """Function should reraise URLError """
        URI = 'http://www.nobodywilleverregisterthisdomainbecauseitwouldberidiculoustodoso.com/'
        assert_raises(IOError, urlopen, URI)
when one of the ops guys found about this, he promptly registered nobodywilleverregisterthisdomainbecauseitwouldberi diculoustodoso.com. so the author changed the test:

Code:
    def test_URLError(self):
        """Function should reraise URLError """
        URI = 'http://www.nobodywilleverregisterthisdomainbecauseitwouldberidiculoustodosounlesstheirnameis<name of ops guy>.com/'
        assert_raises(IOError, urlopen, URI)
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05-01-2013 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler_cracker
when one of the ops guys found about this, he promptly registered nobodywilleverregisterthisdomainbecauseitwouldberi diculoustodoso.com.
-- irreproachable way to spend $10
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05-02-2013 , 02:52 AM
if only there were a standard invalid domain like example.invalid...
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05-02-2013 , 06:24 PM
I got so fed up with agents about 10 years ago, I registered a domain called something like dotcomatdotdotcodotukdotcomatcomdotorg.com and then used it to give out as my email address to pushy agents. It was pretty funny to say part of the name and then act like they were being stupid for assuming I was saying ".com" instead of "dotcom' etc etc.
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05-02-2013 , 06:45 PM
I wrote up how to use Facebook's PHP JIT (hhvm/HipHop) with CodeIgniter. It's a good read for the config details alone since it's archaic and their wiki is incredibly out of date:

http://www.kyleboddy.com/2013/05/02/...h-codeigniter/
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05-02-2013 , 08:07 PM
Kyle,
Something's up with your wordpress. When I visit your site, it shows the bar on top that it should only show when someone is logged in, and it calls me kyleb. In other words, it thinks I'm logged in as you.

If I try to actually modify anything, it asks for a log in, but I'd still look into that ASAP.
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05-02-2013 , 08:28 PM
Goddamnit, someone else reported that months ago too but I was unable to repro it. Not sure what the deal is. Doesn't happen on any of my other sites, and I'm fully patched.

ETA: Alright I flushed the cache and switched themes. I have a feeling it's a combination of those two. Seems to be fine now.

Last edited by anononon; 05-02-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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05-02-2013 , 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb
I wrote up how to use Facebook's PHP JIT (hhvm/HipHop) with CodeIgniter. It's a good read for the config details alone since it's archaic and their wiki is incredibly out of date:

http://www.kyleboddy.com/2013/05/02/...h-codeigniter/
This is just what I've been looking for. What kind of performance benefits are you seeing?
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05-02-2013 , 11:00 PM
Is there a good resource for learning CSS at least to the level where I can work with bootstrap? I feel like reading the bootstrap docs isn't doing it for me.
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05-02-2013 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb
ETA: Alright I flushed the cache and switched themes. I have a feeling it's a combination of those two. Seems to be fine now.
Yeah.. problem solved on my end. Also, you stole my theme.
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05-02-2013 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splashpot
Is there a good resource for learning CSS at least to the level where I can work with bootstrap? I feel like reading the bootstrap docs isn't doing it for me.
I've never seen a really good CSS reference/starting point which is probably why so many non front end developers have such a hard time with it. I picked up my CSS knowledge by starting with codecademy and then just various other sources from all over the place, best probably being css-tricks.com
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05-03-2013 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazDazzle
This is just what I've been looking for. What kind of performance benefits are you seeing?
I've run some tests on basic ANN stuff that simple examples, and I was getting an order of magnitude faster speed using the older HPHPc (so, pre-compiled C++ from PHP via gcc and not including compile time). This was years ago when I first started using hiphop and before I tried getting it to work with a framework.

I haven't benchmarked hhvm yet, but I think on a cold read a 4-6x improvement is not unreasonable with an order of magnitude improvement being likely for most CPU-intensive apps.

If I improved my functional-style programming and multithreading code writing skills, I bet the gap would shrink and regular PHP+APC would not be as slow. Still I don't think it would ever be worse than 4x.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSD
Yeah.. problem solved on my end. Also, you stole my theme.
Sorry

Just picked the least stupid clean one from WP themes.
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05-03-2013 , 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by splashpot
Is there a good resource for learning CSS at least to the level where I can work with bootstrap? I feel like reading the bootstrap docs isn't doing it for me.
I don't know any good resources, but I feel like you just have to do it a lot.

disclaimer: I am terrible at CSS because I hate it so much.
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05-03-2013 , 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb
I wrote up how to use Facebook's PHP JIT (hhvm/HipHop) with CodeIgniter. It's a good read for the config details alone since it's archaic and their wiki is incredibly out of date:

http://www.kyleboddy.com/2013/05/02/...h-codeigniter/
Nice article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splashpot
Is there a good resource for learning CSS at least to the level where I can work with bootstrap? I feel like reading the bootstrap docs isn't doing it for me.
Probably help if you say exactly how new you are. I mean, can you write valid HTML? Do you know any CSS at all?

I'm not an expert, but I'd suggest these + plus a healthy dose of {favorite search engine}:

--> dev.opera

http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/1...dards-cur/#toc

--> MDN

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/...etting_Started

Use the w3c validation tools:

--> HTML

http://validator.w3.org/

--> CSS

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

Then you'd probably have to get familiar with OOCSS, which is what bootstrap uses:

http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2...ted-css-oocss/

And then consider using Foundation instead, which has excellent documentation, btw:

http://foundation.zurb.com/
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